The Jennifer Kamara Podcast

Jennifer: Andrew, if your dad was here, what would you say to him?

Andrew: go to your doctor Go, go to your doctor, man. Um, we should, we, we should. I, I think in this, in this country, like men, like love sports, we should say, Hey, you, you're not allowed to watch any sports. Like we should, like, strike up a deal with like all the like networks and say, Hey, no sports, no fun activities until you go to your, go to your

Jennifer: hey, Andrew.

Andrew: Hey Jennifer, nice to meet you.

Jennifer: It's great to meet you. I usually ask all our guests if they have an item of comfort.

I am taking this from my living room. You can see my plants in the background, which make me feel just so relaxed, and I'm just curious what your item of comfort is.

Andrew: so I haven't met of faith, uh, but I didn't bring my book that brings me comfort. But today I did bring, um, my tea. I'm an avid tea, um, drinker, uh, specifically loose leaf teas. I do like bag teas for travel. Um, and I'm still steeping, uh, tea right now cause I just got a fresh batch. So tea

is my item of my,

Jennifer: you got the loose leaf with the teaspoon, the, the fancy spoon. I love it. My brother's like that too.

Andrew: Yeah. I'm a pretty, pretty, try to be pretty healthy and, and live what I, what I preach or what we, uh, offer to people.

Jennifer: Yeah. And I'm really stoked to get to learn all about it today. . wanted us to get started, Andrew, with taking it all the way back to where you got started in life. So where you grew up, and what those formative moments were for you that formed you into the human being that you are today in adulthood.

So let me start by asking what was growing up like for you?

Andrew: Yeah. For me, uh, I would say it was very tough. I mean, I grew up on the south side of Chicago, and if you do any, you know, Google researching or YouTubeing, you'll understand the, the challenges growing up, um, in, in those neighborhoods. So we, we, being my siblings, we saw all of the activities that, that surrounded us.

Um, but I think our, our, our parents did a really good job of inculcating us and, and putting a, a shield, um, around us so that we wouldn't make a foray into those activities. Um, like many of our friends unfortunately did. And so, It's really tough growing up. So anything that you would think of of people that, um, are raised in, in, in specifically the south side or even the west side of Chicago, um, I experienced and then, um, unfortunately we, so we moved to Atlanta, Georgia.

I didn't know at the time why we were moving to Atlanta, Georgia, but it was because I came to find out that my dad, um, was getting indicted and went to, ended up going to, uh, federal prison. So I think for me, you know, not having my father doing those very formative years in, in high school and as I'm, you know, becoming a, a young man, um, playing sports, looking to get that kind of as assurance and um, kind of guidance that that parents are supposed to, to foster, um, that was very challenging, but, Really taught me the ability to be a go-getter and to not let any impediments stop me from getting to the goals that, that I set for myself.

So, um, I'm gonna say those things.

Jennifer: Yeah. And as you're describing growing up in the south side of Chicago, I'm, and you're saying whatever folks may be envisioning, I'm picturing lots of drugs, gun violence, and just needing to grow up in an environment like that. And what I'm drawn to is what you were saying about how your parents were able to shield you from that.

What, in hindsight now for parents listening was helpful for you growing up with, what did your parents do?

Andrew: Yeah. So as I alluded to earlier, um, you know, faith played a, a huge part of keeping us out of certain environments. Um, you know, one of the, the activities that's very prominent on the south side of Chicago is, is gang violence. I grew up in Rose, the Roseland, um, neighborhoods in the, what's called the hundreds. Um, so you know, on this, the alleyway versus this alleyway, you know, they had competing gangs, right. And my dad actually had, um, you know, stents with, with gangs doing his four formative years and teenage years as well.

So he was able to help, um, you know, tell those folks to not have those activities,

um, happen around our house. And so that, that was one thing. Um, two, you know, keeping us in church. And so naturally just being in that environment kept us off the streets. And then three, um, sports. So sports was an outlet. I was actually a much better baseball player than I was basketball, although I ended up getting a basketball scholarship.

Um, although my dad, I will say my dad, um, my first job outta college was with the Houston Astros. And my dad told me once I, um, Mentioned to him that I landed a job with the Houston Astros, and he told, he said, I knew you would always end up in baseball. And so I didn't end up in baseball, uh, as a professional athlete, but I ended up, in the major league, in the front office.

So I thought it was a very cool moment.

Jennifer: That's awesome. It's also so nice to end up in an industry that you feel really passionately about. Was there anything around like, not playing basketball, but playing baseball in the black community?

Andrew: so in, in Chicago, the, the leagues were very, very prominent. You had the Jackie Robinson League. There was a couple other leagues I can't escape to me right now. Um, but I, like we grew up on baseball. Um, my first major league baseball experience was actually at the Commence, the old Cominskey part. Uh, Frank Thomas, uh, I think Robin Ventor.

He was a third baseman, a couple of maybe, uh, oy Guillen. Um, they sponsored our little league team to come to Cominskey part. Um, so that was my like first, uh, uh, baseball experience. And I just like fell in love with the game of baseball. It was like, I know maybe between five and eight or something, some Asia between. And fell in love with the, with the sport of baseball. And then, uh, fortunately I became a Cubs fan, , so if you know anything about, uh, Chicago baseball, you know, obviously the socks and cubs are arrivals. Um, and that was very, it was, it was very interesting and, and weird for me to be a Cubs fan because the Cubs are on the north side, the socks are on the south side.

Literally, I don't know, 20 or so blocks from, you know, where we

Jennifer: yeah,

Andrew: hung out.

Jennifer: yeah. So you are, pursuing your own path from a very young age.

Andrew: Yeah, no, I mean, I was, I was always just a hustler, so to speak. Uh, a go-getter, just relentless pursuer of. , um, you know, my goals and my dreams, nothing was going to stop me from getting to where I needed to be. Whether it was, you know, not having, you know, um, you know, adequate money because, you know, parents had challenges growing up on the south side of Chicago, having six kids and not being able to pay bills and, um, taking cold showers in the wintertime because, you know, your, your gasket gets cut off.

I mean, it

Jennifer: Yeah.

Andrew: very tough, but, uh, I think I, I wouldn't tra, I wouldn't go back and redo it because it formed me into the man, um, that I am today.

Jennifer: So I really resonate with some things that you're saying. Andrew, I grew up in Sierra Leone in West Africa. We grew up during a war. It's the seventh poorest country in the world. We also didn't have hot water. Uh, and a lot of these things have formed a ton of resilience in me, and so I'm so curious for you, where do you feel this go-getter, nest and resilience really comes from?

If there are any experiences or if you have a sense of where that evolved from in you.

Andrew: I think my, my dad, I mean, I can recall one time. Walking, uh, my, you know, I don't know how he did it, but, you know, we didn't have money. It was my birthday, and he really wanted to me to get, um, these Dion, Sandra shoes. They were like, um, you know, the prize possession on, in the south side of Chicago. And I remember it was like snowing and it was my birthday and he came back and, you know, he got me those shoes.

And so I don't know how he did it. I never got to ask him. Um, unfortunately he passed away, uh, at 56 in 2020, but, um, I, you know, those traits fell down and to me, and I think my dad was definitely, um, someone I, I looked up to. And, um, just given that his background and his upbringing wasn't the most favorable either.

And so, uh, although he had those challenges, he didn't let that stop him from, um, having some success in life, uh, towards the, towards the end of his life.

Jennifer: It definitely comes out so clearly how much you look up to him. Did you wanna share anything further about him and his background?

Andrew: Yeah, so obviously he grew up on the south side of Chicago as well. Um, so he didn't graduate, uh, high school, although he was a, um, pretty, for my mother's recollection, he was a pretty good, uh, football and my uncle as well. He was a really good football player and, and could have had a shot. But again, the, the street life and, you know, getting caught up in, um, activities just prevented him from taking that, that leap, I think.

Um, which naturally had additional dominoes. Um, you know, as, as he, as he grew older that myself and my siblings had to, Reap the ramifications of those decisions and, and you know, his choices, right? So, uh, despite that, I mean, he was a wonderful father. Um, he provided for us. And, um, my, my four sisters and my, my brother, he passed away a couple years ago as well.

Um, but he was always there. And that's, that's one thing I can say about my father, although there wasn't, you know, always, uh, the best circumstances from living and financial and all those things, but he was always present. And so, um, that's what I like to say about my father. And then also when he went to federal prison, after we moved to Atlanta, Georgia,

Jennifer: How old were you then, Andrew? Were you

Andrew: um, so we moved to Atlanta, Georgia, uh, the start of my high school.

So I was about 15. Um, at the time we moved to Chicago, and then the following year is actually when, um, you know, the, the feds came and, you know, he went off to prison. He did a total of about 18 months, I think my mother said. Um, I, I think that's what I remember as well.

Um, so yeah.

Jennifer: and you were gonna say one thing about him, even when you had moved to Atlanta is

Andrew: Oh yeah. So if you think about how some of his traits of resiliency and the go-getter ness, um, um, you know, fell down, like, you know, the apple falls doesn't

Jennifer: mm-hmm.

Andrew: from the tree. How that actually showed up in my life is actually when he was in prison. I play AAU basketball and so the team that I joined was literally on the opposite side of, of Atlanta Ma with Atlanta traffic, I don't know, probably like a two hour, two and a half hour trip.

And so my mother giving them, my dad was in prison, wasn't able to, you know, take, drive me to practices, you know, midweek when, you know, she had four girls, uh, to, to attend to and, um, and provide for it, right? Cause my dad was in prison. And I just found a way. And so what I did was real, I realized that there was a local bus station, uh, you know, about 10 minutes, five, 10 minutes from our house.

So I told myself I can get my mom to drop me off at the bus station. That bus took me downtown, uh, to mid Atlanta. Uh, so I got on the train station, went up to Doraville, got off the, which was the closest stop.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Andrew: um, home and his brother, who I played my best friends, um, we play au basketball with, he would pick me up from the train station and then we would drive up to that, uh, practice site and I think it was like Centennial or something like that.

Um, and so again, just an ex example of not letting any challenges get in my way of, you know, getting to where I need it to be.

Jennifer: yeah. And I see the determination, focus, and no challenge is gonna stop you in your eyes right now as you're talking about it.

Andrew: Yeah. As long as I have long, uh, air in my lungs and, and I'm, uh, the creator gives me time on this earth, I, I think anything can be accomplished. Not in a, you know, I don't, I don't think you can be five two and play an nba. Right. Not, not in that sense. Right. But, you know, there are some things that are achievable for anyone.

Um, you know, if they're willing to go get it.

Jennifer: Yeah. And it just makes me think about how, I think we maybe look at challenges as, oh no, we get stressed out about them and it's so beautiful to, to see how a challenge has made you so much stronger. And I totally agree with, I feel the same with my experiences growing up. They've given me so much perspective and I wouldn't really trade my upbringing for the world.

It's made me who I am today. And,

it's not that they're not hard periods to go through, but they really do. They are character building in a way that's really valuable.

Andrew: Yeah. I was just gonna say that like, trials build character and, you know, care. Um, and also through those trials, build patience and endurance. Right? Although, like, again, I, I wouldn't. . You know, I'm not

like jumping up

the joy, right?

Like, oh, I went through the struggle. Like, it's not like a badge of honor. It's just,

Jennifer: yeah.

Andrew: you can't choose the cars that, that are dealt. And so you have to play the hand, um, that you have

Jennifer: yeah. And you can just see the, there's something to appreciate in it made you who you are today. So I'm hearing some of the formative moments for you, loud and clear. Andrew, this may be when you were five or six when these baseball players came and Got you excited about baseball. I'm obviously hearing the thread of your dad throughout your upbringing.

He got you. These shoes showed you resilience, reliability. , uh, hard work. And then I'm hearing a lot of your playing sports in high school as well. Where did your knack for entrepreneurship come from?

Andrew: um, desperation, so growing up in Chicago, I, there was a, a penny store, which we used to call it. Basically it's a candy store, um, like on, like corners in, in the hood. Uh, so what I did and when my, my parents helped me do was like, Hey, if you want to, you know, earn money for this and this, then you need to, you make a way, which is the theme of what I've been saying so far.

And so I packaged up, you know, candy, like penny candy, Chico Sticks was a big thing in, in Chicago, et cetera, et cetera. And I sold that, in school during like, you know, you know, playtime, recess, um, in, in o s, et cetera, et cetera. And that's how I, you know, earned money. So from a very young boy, I think that was like fourth grade, fifth grade, fifth, probably between third and fifth grade.

That was like my starting point of like entrepreneurship. And then even in college, you know, I did some things on the side to generate income, right? I don't come from a safety net, so I couldn't tap on mom and dad to say, Hey, I need, you know, x, although they did in a times, you know, provide funds, but, uh, you know, when you're playing basketball, uh, in college and you know, you're, you're a growing boy, you need, you need to eat right.

Those calories, you lose calories pretty fast when you have 5 33 practices, individual weights, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and so from college experience doing things on the side, a launch into kind of a cosmetic brand that was, started by my late grandfather. So even taking it further, like my grandfather had this cosmetic product that he, uh, had patented and et cetera, et cetera.

So I jumpstarted that once I was working with the Houston Astros and then, um, yeah, just kind of

Jennifer: Transition.

And today, here we are. You're the founder and c e o of live chair health. And I love the community aspect of providing healthcare to folks, incorporating folks that you see on a day-to-day like your barber. but we know that you, unfortunately suffered the loss of your dad, which caused you to pivot.

And so if you're okay with it, I'd love to start with where you had started with live care health before the healthcare pivot.

Andrew: Yeah. So my co-founders and I, we, had a pain point of scheduling and, and pain for haircuts, right? This was back in the infant days before, like scheduling and booking was a thing. There's a lot of platforms out there that have, you know, you know, done a really good job. And so 20 15, 20 16, my, my good friend Michael Devore had like their original concept of like, um, just like scheduling and this, it was, I think it was just like scheduling, right? And so, um, I came on board 2016 and then we like really, like Jumpstarted in 2018 brought on some other, you know, co-founders and we were growing this, you know, scheduling and payment pro. It was a scheduling, payment processing, crm, marketing tool, et cetera, et cetera. It was really robust, uh, at least at that time.

Um, the systems that are out now are, are, are just, you know, on a whole nother level. And so, uh, we were building that. And then as we were building that platform, my, one of my co-founders, Dr. Peter Blair, was researching health disparities and I think he did some work at Harvard. where it said, you know, uh, you know, engagement, low engagement for, you know, the population, African American men that we were seeing again and again from our scheduling and booking tool, looking at the data on the backend.

And so we said to ourselves, you know, if health plans and health systems have a hard time reaching and engaging their population, why not use the barbershops at the time as, as a bridge and concurrently my dad's health was, was, was declining. And so he was going in and out of the hospital and, you know, I just looked to myself and, you know, my, my, my, my team and I said, Hey, we, we have to do this.

Right? I think it was even like Dr. Blair like really pushed me. He was like, Hey, like if we're not doing healthcare, like what? Like what are we doing? Right? And so, uh, you know, took a hard weekend, a long weekend to say, you know what, although our business is growing, like I feel like this is the right thing to do.

And um, it turns out there's a huge market for it too, by the way. So we made a pivot. We made a pivot.

Jennifer: what I love about it too is the fact that you're solving a real problem in a market that you real quite clearly understand. But before we go into, I wanna learn all about what you're doing today with live care health. Let's talk a little bit about your dad. And like with every hero's journey, there is a tragedy and you lost your dad.

What happened?

Andrew: Yeah. So starting from, from the roots, I would say, uh, lack of, preventative care, So not going into your annual wellness visits. Right. But waiting to, and this is common amongst black men, but I would just say men in general, um, waiting until there's some catastrophic episode to go to urgent care or the emergency room.

So I'll say that's number one. Um, lifestyle choices, right? You know, diet, exercise, taking care of your mental health and. or managing stress. And it's hard when you're a disadvantage from an income standpoint and you have bills and you have , now what they label social determinants of health.

I don't know if that was, uh, the label when he was growing up, but that's what he experienced, right? Childhood trauma, um, very you tumultuous background, um, growing up. Um, and so, um, so yeah, I would say those things, right? So some of the issues were self inflicted, right? So not managing stress, inadequate eating and dieting, nutrition, right?

lack of exercise. And I think some of it was, um, not getting care in the appropriate settings, um, from a preventative standpoint and waiting too late, after the condition had, you know, exacerbated. So I would say those two things, um, were three things would. Would be the reason why I think his health declined.

Jennifer: Was it cancer?

Andrew: No, he actually passed away from congestive heart failure. His, um, his

heart was operating, I think the last time I saw him was less than like 7%. And it was just a miracle that he lasted for as long as he did, um, after like multiple stents, um, with almost every imaginable specialist doctor, uh, you know, in, in the hospital.

Uh, but he, you know, he lasted I think maybe a year after one of his episodes. And, um, but yeah, when your heart is operating that low, it's, you know,

it's only a matter of time.

Jennifer: And it was, we discovered it late.

Andrew: Yeah. I, I think we discovered it late. I don't, I don't know what, like, what he was doing when he was like 30 or like 27, but, um, the, the, the time that I was in the house with him,

um, I don't think I ever seen my dad like, work out and say, Hey, you know, let's, let's drink some beat juice. Right? Like, I,

Jennifer: Yeah,

Andrew: those

Jennifer: Hey, I don't even drink features right now. So

Andrew: hey, if, if you get a juicer, you put a apple a lemon, you, you won't

Jennifer: It's some

Andrew: it

and you, you'll just get all the new drink.

Jennifer: Okay.

Andrew: just, um, and then that's, that's free. So,

Jennifer: Yeah, I love that. And I love even going back to the beginning, you saying that you drink tea and you like to eat healthily. So incorporating all of that for ourselves, how was that for your family? How did you guys go through the grief and pain.

Andrew: I didn't take as much time off to like really grieve and to like let the sit situation marinate in terms of like how it affected my psyche, how it affected my mood, how it affected my, uh, response to people, et cetera, et cetera. Because, you know, we're running a startup. You're just, you're just going, going, going.

And so I think that is a learning for me and other entrepreneurs to, you know, take time. Right? Take time. And this is also why the team is important, because you know, during that period really, didn't have the, the support system when we made the pivot, just because we hadn't raised capital and people couldn't, you know,

Jennifer: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Tap into their, you know, savings that they've had since two to like say, Hey, I'm gonna do this full-time. And so I had some corporate success and was able to do that. But some other folks, um, early in the, in the journey wasn't able to do that. And so, looking in hindsight, I wish I would've taken more time versus just kind of getting over it and, um, jumping back into the, the hustle and bustle of running a startup in life.

And so obviously my mom, you know, took it the, the worst given that she's known my dad all his life basically.

Jennifer: Makes sense. Some folks, actually even, they prefer to just go get back into work and almost numb the feelings out and just move on. I think that's something that has served us in the past of. Moving on with our lives, but there's also so much value to actually processing the feeling so we can let it go and, and grow from it.

Do you feel like you've now had a chance to process?

Andrew: Yeah. I do believe now actually getting counseling, um, that, you know, anything you suppress, eventually there's gonna be some trigger that elevates whatever you suppress. Um, because at the end of the day, we're not cogs, we're not machines, we're not, um, you know, chat G p t bots, we are human beings with emotions and feelings and, and, and I know feelings gets a negative word, but like, I'm actually realizing that that feelings really matter, especially now that I have, you know, two kids.

I have a wife like that, that is extremely important, right, because I. given my story, um, very like hard-nosed, hard worker, no excuses. But that doesn't always translate to, you know, running a successful household, right? You have to be attuned to your five-year-old's feelings. Um, and so, uh, I, I'm able to deal with it better now because I have, you know, counseling, um, and just wisdom and guidance for, uh, inner circle that, that I have to, that, um, hold me accountable and, and tell me, Hey, it's, it's okay to grieve.

You know? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a trade that can bring healing, and I've seen it happen.

Jennifer: 1000%. I love this of the only way out is through, and whatever we resist persists, and if we don't take the time to process, it inevitably comes up. Like you mentioned, having kids, and so I'm really glad that you are taking, you took the time to get counseling for others, going through grief.

A loved one that's really close. In your case, your dad was extremely important to you. What have you learned about grieving and healing that you can share?

Andrew: take, take the time, right? Like, actually take the time. Whether that's a, a week, a day or like, you know, best, how much time is needed. As I mentioned, I didn't take the time and so it had other ramifications that showed up in other areas. Two, one outta one people die, right? And so death is a natural result of living on this earth and. do all that you can. Right? You know, from, you know, healthy habits, um, you know, all the things that keep you here long enough, but, but realize that, you know, there might be a, a, a future where, things get better, right?

And so I, I don't know how that manifests and shows up in someone's life, but, um, maybe people gather around and say, Hey, let's be more appreciative of, you know, our, our family, because we never know when they're, um, you know, when they're closer to the checkout line, so to speak, right?

And so it could be, let me not harbor so much bitterness because again, I like, who knows if you know Sally or Susie or whoever is gonna get cancer, and then, you know, this is the last, few moments that I have with them. And so I think death and grieving can bring about some of those, potential outcomes.

Jennifer: And then also about feelings. You mentioned that feelings can get a negative rep, but. you are seeing being a founder, ceo, and having a wife and kids, that feelings are actually important. What are you learning there

Andrew: one of the things that's served me really well is, uh, reading, uh, just an inordinate amount of emotional intelligence. And so I think, you know, one of the things that you'll learn in iq, uh, EQ books is the ability to tap into your feelings, right? Because if someone, you know, there, there's an old adage that says, you know, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

I think that's the biggest lie ever. Right? Um, there are still things that impact me today for what someone said 12 years ago. And so I'm very cautious with words. And so feelings, right? Like, Hey, someone just said this to. How did that make you feel? And it's okay to be emotional now.

It's not okay to use those emotions to, destroy yourself because of choices you make because of what someone said, right. Uh, but address them, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So, um, I would say really tapping into my fellows board than I ever thought I I would be, um, like if I'm having a long work week, right?

Uh, and there's been challenges with, you know, the management team or like, there's a fire tapping into like, Hey, how does, this week make you feel? Versus last week where those fires didn't come up. Taking inventory, right? So I'm really taking inventory more because of this emphasis on, uh, tapping into my.

Jennifer: Yeah. And to on that, from my experience, I do hear about how feelings are a form of weakness, and you must power through and push through and be a brick and get through every situation. Uh, but for me it feels like a source of strength of being able to connect with another human at work, for instance, of, Hey, you may be going through something, how are you feeling?

And how can you process that? And it. Gets you closer to this person. Or if you have a conflict with, a co-founder or someone else talking through it from a sense of openness. And there's a lot of courage in transparently sharing how something makes you feel can bring you really close together and open up a variety of possibilities in terms of solutions that you may not be as aware of.

And then same in personal life with family. Especially kids are so wonderful, they're just an open book, right? And then we somewhere learn to close off and shut down our emotions and our feelings. And I think kids are such a great teacher of how being open and being just completely vulnerable is such a beautiful thing because you can share and folks can try and meet you where you're at.

So to me, in my experience, feelings are a source of strength and being able to process them and figure out what's important and why to you.

Andrew: Yeah. And, and, and you know, the person that says like, feelings aren't important, just run through the brick wall. But like, implicit in that statement is feelings, right? You're saying run through brick wall because you feel some type of way about not running and to in the brick wall, right? So if you like, really dissect that statement, even people that have that worldview as I, as I would, as I would term it, um, they're, they're tapping into feelings as well.

They are just, uh, you know, maybe not tapping in into the feelings from an emotional like lens, right? But they're still exhibiting feelings. You can't escape it. Like you're, you're a human. Like again, you're not a, you're not a bot, right? You're a human. Like if you don't have feelings, I can't even say you don't have feeling everyone has feelings.

It's just like, it's a, it's a matter of how you actually allow feelings to influence your decisions is where it really gets murky, right? Um, because if you operate solely on feelings, you will lead you that, that will take you down the road to destruction, right? Because there's a lot of things I don't feel like doing. My, or let's go back to

the children. My daughter, you know, she's five or she's about to be six, about to be six, and she doesn't feel like going to school many mornings, right? Should I just say, oh, okay. Because you don't feel like going to school, you can just stay here and not learn and get you no. Right?

Like, your feelings don't determine that. I understand how you're feeling this way because you're tired, right? Um, and, and I understand that. So maybe I'll put you to bed a little bit earlier, right? So you don't feel as tired the next morning, right? So like, uh, express the feelings, address the feelings, and then, um, you know, have solve for the feelings is, is how I would look at it.

Jennifer: Great advice. Love it. Beautiful. All right. What's that? Shall we get back to live chair health?

Andrew: Oh, lab chair health. Forgot all about it. Sorry.

Jennifer: I'm so excited to learn about where y'all have pivoted to tell us what you're doing now.

Andrew: Yeah, so the original concept was training barbers to take blood pressure readings and like really using those what we call liaisons as access points, for African American men at the time, since, you know, our original pivot back in 2020. Wasn't the most opportune time to pivot, given that it was a, uh, world pandemic

Jennifer: Yeah.

Andrew: We made the pivot nonetheless. and so now we actually have morphed beyond, um, just barbershops. So we work with, what I like to say is wherever people live, work, play, and then some people say like worship, et cetera, et cetera. That's where live share health sets up infrastructure. And then we use those channels as access points to, uh, reach hard to, to reach population, right?

Most of the members that we're serving from health plans are some of their hardest to reach members or just members that are not engaged for, uh, for various reasons, right? It could be like distrust of the, the healthcare system, which, you know, from an African American standpoint, um, there are various, uh, episodes in our country's history that, um, does allow for that feeling, right?

That, that someone. And so, um, again, expanding our community hubs. Also just expanding our infrastructure, right? So we currently use what's called community health workers to augment these hubs, um, in addition to having a, a call center team, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and then just however, you know, people like to be reached, right?

We don't really take a, like, monolithic approach to this is how you have to reach people because everyone is different, right? And so our system now is really built from an omnichannel approach, and we've found that to be very, uh, successful.

Jennifer: where in the US are you operating?

Andrew: currently live in Maryland, uh, Los Angeles, and we are, soon to be launching in Tennessee, uh, DC and North Carolina. So those are the upcoming

markets.

Jennifer: And understanding. Is it mainly preventative healthcare?

Andrew: Yeah, I would look at, so we bucket it in three pillars. So preventative, social and administrative. So preventative. Think of anything from annual wellness visits to preventative screenings. Preventative you know, dieting and nutrition and management, mental health, right?

Social. So a lot of the, most of the population that we serve right now is, uh, purely Medicaid. And so there are social determinants of health barriers that keep people from taking that next step in their health journey. And so we try to close those social determinants of health gap differently than how some other platforms do it, uh, which is kind of part of our secret sauce.

And then administrative, so helping plans, um, re-certify members. . Now that's a benefit for the plan, but the benefit for the member is if, let's take Medicaid for example. If you lose coverage cuz you don't re redetermine, then um, you say you need care and you, you're not, uh, you know, properly insured. Well now that bill that could have been subsidized, it's now on your plate right?

To fund. Um, and there's, there can be entirely a new episode around, uh, you know, medical bills and, and how that, you know, affects people health, et cetera, et cetera. But

Jennifer: Yeah.

I'm so curious to know what you're learning about the social determinants of healthcare and how we bridge that gap, particularly for underserved communities.

Andrew: I, I think there's a misnomer and, and healthcare that, you know, people just don't want to do things. Um, you know, but like that prescriptive, Approach is, is I think why we have the issues that we do in our country and, and more poignantly in healthcare. And so if someone, you think about it, right, if you have a single mother in, you know, a urban city that has two kids, she has a job, maybe two jobs, and the closest primary care provider is, you know, two miles off the line, the bus line, cuz she doesn't have transportation, like, you know, Maslow's hierarchy needs, you think she's gonna attend her PCP appointment when, you know, there's still, you know, inadequacy in food and maybe housing and some other challenges like just no.

And so learning that those drivers honestly, um, I think it's been said, right, like your zip code is a predictor of your life expectancy more than like maybe any other like

Jennifer: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: And so if we can address those social determinants of health, which we can, we have the money, we're spending money on, you know, A bunch of things

is very useless if I'm very frank.

Um, so we have the money to address these issues. It's really just a matter of, you know, like how much people care

Jennifer: So if there were three things that we can do to bridge this gap, what would they be?

Andrew: you know, I think a lot of it does, you know, I don't wanna say policy, but the, you know, policies do impact, uh, people, I mean, mean it just does. Right. Um, so I would say from a policy perspective, that's, that's probably like a, you know, meta thing that we, you can't control a voting, but you know what, if you're a person doesn't get an office.

So I look at it on the micro, right. So on the micro you

like watching this video can be the catalyst for change in your neighborhood and. Think about serving at, you know, local nonprofits or, uh, giving money to these nonprofits that, that are doing wonderful work that can bolster some of the services and, and, and, and, and items that they have to provide for, for organizations.

Um, uh, I would, I would say, I would say those two, right? So, um, you know, macro, maybe policy voting, but because you can't control who's in office, uh, micro, you can't control what you do, how you spend your time, how you spend your money and, and how you leverage your talents. So

Jennifer: it. And any particular services we want to make sure are more available with the NGOs, for instance?

Andrew: I think food is, is key, right? Um, given what I said earlier about kind of my, um, pension for, you know, teas and eating healthy and even meat juice, uh, I think, you know, there's one of our brain trust doctors that says, uh, healthcare, like eating right or food is like king. And then like exercise is clean and then every, everything else comes into play.

But I think nutrition, exercise and diet is extremely important. So I would emphasize that mental health and, um, economic upward mobility, the ability for people to climb up the economic ladder because, you know, to be honest with you, I know there are challenges even when you look at, you know, higher income, um, folks, right?

That, you know, they're not taking care of their health. But, you know, when you have the means to at least not think about survival mode, you can, you know, spend more time on, you know, taking care of your health.

Jennifer: That makes a ton of sense. How about in community care? What are you seeing as the biggest opportunities for community care and challenges for community care?

Andrew: Yeah. So opportunities, um, from a Medicaid standpoint, there's a lot of density in the neighborhoods because, um, you know, most Medicaid folks live in the same, they live in the same area. Um, and so, so that's number one. Um, which actually gives us, uh, incredible leverage to help us like scale up our operations.

I think the challenge, um, honestly, I don't see that many challenges and we have to think about it a little bit more, you can get incredible leverage from the community liaisons and people that look and feel and talk like the folks that we're engaging.

Um, so I think, you know, that trust is, is very important. So that's another like pro, you know, cons, I think if I'm just talking about it from a lot of health perspective or people that have tried to do this in the past has really scaled, like, how do you like scale up these operations?

And I do think we have, um, cracked that nut.

Jennifer: So it sounds like there's opportunity here to reach folks who were so hard to reach before, and then the nut to crack is how do you implement the structures to have this be a consistent and stable infrastructure to scale?

Andrew: Yeah. I mean show showing up frequently to where people live, work, play prey, et cetera, et cetera, is, is, is very important. Um, and not just, you know, a lot of, you know, I see a. organiza, I'll just use the word organizations that attempt to do this, but it's so sporadic that it doesn't have the lasting impact.

Right.

Versus, you know, a lot check help. Yeah. It's not consistent. Right. So, you know, if, if, if your husband right, um, only sees you two times a month

and, you know, um, some other husband, you know, sees their wife, you know, 19 times a month or tw every day. Right. Who do you think is gonna have a, like a more ingrained and and loving relationship that galvanizes um, that person to take that next action?

Right.

Um, so I, I think a lot of organizations are kidding themselves that, um, you know, their, their outreach methods that haven't worked right. We're gonna now, you know, work for, you know, some things like, um, some of the big healthcare issues.

Jennifer: Yeah. And then the, as you're saying that one thing that comes to mind is probably also cracking the nut of training. Of training the barbers, training the folks at where you pray, training the folks at your gym, et cetera.

Andrew: absolutely. And so one of the things that we are trying to figure out is how, how do we get those certifications and credentials, um, for these kind of, you know, community liaisons where they can earn, um, supplemental income? Um, because again, you know, there's opportunity costs. If you're doing X, you can't do Y.

And so we understand that there's opportunity costs, um, which is why, you know, we staff up and augment a lot of these hubs with our, our staff, uh, our team currently.

But there is a lot of opportunities for training and I think there's like reimbursements for, you know, some of these things, um, that, that non kind of clinical folks can do that will have, you know, massive impacts across not just live chair health, but uh, you know, the healthcare system.

Jennifer: Yeah. Where do you see community health evolving into like me if 10 years is too far down the line to predict or have thoughts about how about five years or two years from now

Andrew: Uh, like community health, um, I do think you can leverage. So think about like transportation for example. If transportation is a barrier and you have, I dunno if I wanna get this away because, uh, the opportunity for us, but I'll share it because, you know, I, I, I think competition is good. Um, and at

the end of the day, someone still has to like, execute on the idea.

Like, ideas

are a dime a dozen, but Execution is

what matters.

So I'll just say it, right. So you think about, uh, transportation being a barrier in, low low income populations, but there's a plethora of telehealth solutions. So why not have like telehealth options? , uh, underutilized spaces in the community where, you know, the mo the the single mother doesn't have to,

you know,

go down, uh, to get on the bus, get off a bus, you know, hour trip, maybe she can go to this underutilized resource or space that's equipped with telehealth and then they can, you know, has devices and all that and they can just get their care.

They being that that family and then other families in the community can just go like down the street, right, to get their care. So I think that's a huge opportunity, um, cuz the infrastructure is there from a telehealth perspective, right there, again, there are so many companies out there that, that do this work.

Um, so the infrastructure is there. And then I think too, uh, if we can improve, so our motto is building stronger, stable, more healthier communities.

Jennifer: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: like the economic upward mobility is very important, right? Um, you know, if you take someone living in, I don't know, like a black family living in Brentwood, California, or Yeah.

California versus, um, you know, west Baltimore. Right. Those, those economic factors are gonna drive health more than, you know, more than anything else. Right. So I think the upward mobility is, is very important, to improve community care,

Or, you know, alleviated or eliminate it.

Um, the, the problems we see within community care

Jennifer: Yeah. And I see that being addressed both by a combination of government organizations, folks like Live Chair Health, all coming together and getting integrated. I'm really excited for community healthcare. I think there is a big opportunity there to just meet more people where they're at, as opposed to expecting folks to make the time when we talk about how folks who are working multiple jobs don't have as much time in trying to just put food on the table or avoid dangerous situations depending on what neighborhoods they're growing up in.

So they're excited for, for all of this. Folks can find you at Live Chair Health, the website. Anything else you wanna shout out?

Andrew: Yeah, so, uh, www.live chair.co is the, is the website. Um, and live chair i n c is our, our tag on all of our social media channels. So, um, would definitely recommend and appreciate everyone, follow us to stay up to date on all things live chair health, uh, as we come to a city near you.

Jennifer: Amazing. And then let's get it back to you, Andrew, before I let you go. So this hero has been through a lot. What's important to you these days?

Andrew: relishing in the beauty of the mundane. Um, and what I mean by that is, , uh, you know, people gripe about their kids complaining or like, uh, groaning about X, y, z fill in a blank, right? But, you know, at one day, like, you're gonna be an empty nester and you're gonna wish you had more of those moments, right?

And so relishing in the fact that, you know, I'm blessed to have a six year old, you know, daughter, that, that complains, right? And I get a opportunity to coach her, um, and become a productive citizen that helps our, our country and our society flourishes. Um, also the beauty of appreciating the, the little things.

So I was at a conference in Orlando last month, I delan and I just lost hearing in my right ear. And so it was so odd. I hadn't, like, no symptoms, nothing happened, like literally just lost hearing. So I chucked it. Two, it may be being like air pressure or whatever the case may be. That wasn't the case. Went to an audiologist, had an exam, audiologist recommended.

I see a E N T saw the e n t was like, Hey, your, your ears is like basically dead. And so put me on some meds, thankfully, and shout out to, you know, modern ent, uh, medicine and, and providence. Um, I've started to retain my hearing, but it's still unintelligible right now. And so just thinking about, you know, having a good ear that I can hear of right before, I never gave

thanks to like,

being, being able to hear, right.

Because there are some people that aren't, unfortunately, aren't able to hear or taking a shower. Like, I can reach underneath my arms and make sure I'm not passing funk to the community. Right? And like, but some, like, some people can't do that, right? And I know it's like, I'm just being a little humorous with it.

But, um, like really appreciating the, the little things, um, that have, you know, that makes life's more jo joyful because life isn't a party. , you know, it, it isn't, you know, there is going to be boring days, there is going to be routine rudi ru rudimentary things that, that happen. Um, that is just a part of the, the, the, the journey of life.

Jennifer: I have a big smile on my face cuz I so agree with that. It's such an important reminder every day. The things we don't think about, like our heart's beating, we don't think about that.

Andrew: Yeah. Because my dad's heart's not beating right now, you know, and so I, I would love to have another 20 or 30 years with him to see him, to see, for him to see me building this company or have him here to be able to, you know, inculcate and, uh, you know, help my sisters grow. Right. And so it's, yeah.

Sorry to chime in, but

Jennifer: no, it's really, it's really important. And on that note, Andrew, if your dad was here, what would you say to him?

Andrew: go to your doctor Go, go to your doctor, man. Um, we should, we, we should. I, I think in this, in this country, like men, like love sports, we should say, Hey, you, you're not allowed to watch any sports. Like we should, like, strike up a deal with like all the like networks and say, Hey, no sports, no fun activities until you go to your, go to your doctor.

So you at least have a baseline, right? I don't think ignorance is bliss, right? You should know. You know, you should know, you know, what's happening to you. And there's like this myth, oh, I'm healthy. Like, how do you determine what's going on in inside of your body? You don't, you don't know

that, right? You have no idea you, so anyway, that I will not get on that soapbox because, uh, we'll extend this by

Jennifer: That'll be for another episode. Go to your doctor and your, take care of your mental health and eat and make sure to sleep enough

Andrew: Yeah. And, and accountability, right? And so I think accountability is I important because these things on like this is one, um, edict or exhortation that the person impacts is the. person in the mirror, right? So it impacts immediately the person in the mirror. But think about how it impacts people around you if you don't do those things right?

So like my mother, for example, had to take care of my dad taking on dialysis. Um, so there's cost to that, you know, um, uh, purchase additional medication, right? So there is a cost to being unhealthy, right? And so, um, again, conversation for another day, but I'll leave it there.

Jennifer: I wanna last question. How are you taking care of yourself and what can we all steal from you?

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of a maniac, so I don't Hey,

Jennifer: Tell us though, tell

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer: your day. You wake up at what time? What, how do you exercise? What else are you drinking besides bee juice?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, no, it's good. So I, I wake up every morning at, at six 30. Um, I do devotion, uh, so that's the first thing. I, I do devotion and meditation and prayer. Um, have my cup of, uh, tea. I specifically drink tea, tea in the morning. And then, um, after I take my daughter to school around seven 20, I work out, um, I'm sorry, you finish up devotion.

And then I work out. And then I typically start, and in between this, right, I have this mobile device, so I'm like answering emails or checking Slack after my devotion time, right? So I'm like checking emails, like in the carpool, I'm just sitting there for 10 minutes. So I'm like checking Slack, talking to my daughter.

And then once I get home, I do my workout. So, because if I don't do my workout as the day gets going, I'm just not gonna do it. So I, I do my workout, I workout five days a week. Um,

and, and then,

Jennifer: strength running cardio?

Andrew: I do 30 minutes a day, hit cardio, um, and, and weight training, which incorporates, you know, it's a 50 50, so it does hit, and then weight training.

And so that takes care of my entire body. And then on Friday I'll, I'll work out a little bit longer. And then from there, um, I actually work when I'm working, so I don't, I'm not on social media. I'm not like, I'm just glued to my, my desk from like, I don't know, eight 40 to until five 10. I go pick up my, my daughter and, and my son to get my wife a break who, um, you know, is seeing patients all day.

And, um, then we have family time. So from, I don't know, 5 45 to eight o'clock, like it's no work. Um, family time helping, uh, my wife get the kids ready for bed. And then, and then obviously we're have, we're having dinner in that, in that time period. And then I spend some time with the wife. and I try to get down, get some more work done, um, to shut down around like 12, like, like 12, like 12 o'clock and try to get six to six to seven hour, six to seven hours of sleep.

But I think it's important, right? Like if you actually work when you're supposed to be working, you can get a lot done, right? So, um, I think my social media time is probably like two, like, I don't know, three minutes a day because like in transition I'll like check in or something, but it's like, I dunno.

But on the weekend, obviously, uh, I take a, a Sabbath on, not because I'm a Jew or anything like that, but that's just Saturday is my day,

um, to just rest. I don't do, I don't do any work. So no work on Saturday, full family time. And then Sunday I'm, I'm, I'm back at it. So, you know, I was, the early days I was probably working, I don't know, 90 to a hundred hours a week, like getting it started.

So now I'm about around 60,

70.

But I try to stay, I try to stay at this 60, 60

hour cause I'm more, more efficient.

Jennifer: Yeah. I love

it.

Andrew: Sorry, that was a, that was a long-winded

Jennifer: no, that was wonderful. That's great. I love that. You're really balanced, right? You're taking care of your health, your personal health. You're taking care of making sure you're spending time with people you love, and then you're really focused when you're working this trick of just when you're working, you're working and no other distractions is so simple, really hard to execute, but so simple and so effective.

I also take a, a one day off, try to have no screen time.

Uh,

Andrew: I think

Jennifer: I give my husband my phone. I'm like, don't gimme the phone.

Andrew: I think it is be, I think it is wonderful for the soul, for the mental health and just for rejuvenation so that you can be your best self. Um, the ne the next week. Also, you asked me about juices.

Um, so I say again, food.

Jennifer: Yeah. You're a

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, food. So I don't eat any, I don't consume sugar.

Um, no fried foods, no fast foods. . Um, I try to stay away from anything frozen and you know, eat very clean.

Part of that was prompted because I was diagnosed with, um, Crohn's disease like a couple years ago. Um, I have a very malforms, it's controlled, I think because of my lifestyle. Um, um, so that prompted me to like really kind of be even more, uh, ex extreme so to speak.

But, you know, I'm on a diet called the S C D, and so it is, and it's not for the fan and heart, right? It's called the s c D, but I will

tell

Jennifer: does it mean? S c. D.

Andrew: specific carbohydrate, um, diet. And so, um, so no carbs, um, no grains, no sugar, no fast foods, no fried foods, right? I'll

Jennifer: So is it like keto?

Andrew: Now it's, it's, it's a little bit more intense than keto.

Um, you should look it up. It's, again, it's, it's not for the faint and heart. A lot of, a lot of the items you have to, um, you know, you have to make yourself right. And so my wife helps out a lot in terms of. You know, instead of like for, uh, pancakes or waffles, I'll use almond flour

with honey and then a, a right banana and mix it up and then just put it on the, the grill.

Oh, not the grill. The, um,

the waffle maker. Yeah, the

skillet, yeah, the waffle maker. Um, and then I'll, I'll, um, put honey right in the container and then melt it down and then add a little cim, cinnamon and, um, vanilla extract. And then that's my, my syrup and my, my sweetener.

Jennifer: yeah. Makes sense. Why no frozen food?

Andrew: um, the check out the ingredients, uh, if you

Jennifer: but what about like fr you said no sugar whatsoever, so no fruits. So you

Andrew: Well, I'm, I'm sorry. Yes. So yes,

Jennifer: I eat a lot of frozen fruit. That's why I'm asking

Andrew: No. So technically yes, fruit. Yeah, there is like natural sugar and fruit. So when I'd say like no sugars, like no cane sugar, no.

Jennifer: Yeah. Okay.

Andrew: artificial sugars, like my sweetener, uh, for everything is, is honey. And so it's not that I won't have, like I'll cheat, obviously I'm not, I'm not per, I'm not perfect guys.

Um, so like I will have like, you know, sometimes I'll, drive by crispy cream with my wife and I'll say, Hey, today is that day, right? But you gotta have that

balance. I gotta balance And, you know, look, I, I like to drink spirits and, and, and wine, right? But in, in moderation. So that's like my, my, my caveat.

Um, I like to do that in, you know, in moderation, right? And so that, um, that provides me like, the fun things in life.

Jennifer: yeah. Life is in a lab that's so sterile and perfect. Enjoy sometimes

it,

Andrew: you gotta join. So like

Jennifer: limits.

Andrew: I, those are, those are my outlets, right? So,

you know, glass of wine or nice bourbon like that tho those are, those are my things again, in moderation. And, and I think self-control is important.

Jennifer: Yeah. All right. Thank you so much Andrew. I'll go look up this diet. I really also enjoyed learning about what you're building and thank you for sharing more about your dad and what growing up and just aspects of you. This was great.

Andrew: Absolutely Jennifer, thank you for having me on. And, um, shout out to everyone listening to this. Go be the, the best you.

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