The Jennifer Kamara Podcast

Jes: In entertainment where you still have only a third of characters or, or female characters. And female characters who are protagonists still use magic to save the day, versus male characters tend to use STEM skills or strength. Um, So, so there's still a lot in this system that is telling girls and boys different stories about themselves and their place in society and, and we think that should probably change

Jennifer: Hey, Jacob Fu Crew. Happy Women's Week. We've got a star guest to kick us off. Her name is Jess Wolf and she's the c e O of Rebel Girls, which is one of my favorite companies. They're a global multi-platform media company that's focused on inspiring confidence in little girls. Jess tells me about why girls develop a confidence gap relative to.

Between the ages of six to 12, we talk about what parents can do as well as supporting figures like me as an aunt to instill confidence in these girls. We talk about who some of Jess's inspirational role models were growing up as a rebel girl and much, much more. It's a really, really fun conversation.

Thanks so much, Jess, for coming on. Enjoy y'all.

Jennifer: What is something you're grateful for these days?

Yeah.

Jes: uh, grateful for my dog.

I'm grateful for the snow cause I love to ski. Grateful for my team.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Jes: I'm grateful for a new year.

Jennifer: Yeah, I love it. So many things and so much to do in 2023. , I am so excited to have you to chat with you on this super powerful topic today, Jess. I am literally smacking the target demographic for Rebel Girls. I have four nieces. Three of them are in the age group of six to 12.

One of them turns eight, literally in three days time. Um, and so I love the product and thought we would get started with first getting a sense of where are we today? We're girls today. What are their problems and what are their challenges that they're facing in 2023?

Jes: Yeah. Well, I think kids were hurt by the pandemic. I think girls were especially hurt by the pandemic. So we're, we're coming out of the pandemic with girls, um, two times more likely than boys to suffer depression, three times more likely than boys to suffer cyber bullying. 72% of girls saying they feel extreme pressure to look beautiful.

Um, social media not helping any of it. So I think we've got some repairing to do for all children, but also especially for girls.

Jennifer: I had a guest Nina Vasan on, and she is a mental health specialist, and we talked about the impact of social media on girls and girls are more likely to compare themselves to other girls, especially in terms of things like beauty and wanting to live up to whatever expectations they're shown.

especially post pandemic. So really resonating with.

Jes: Yeah, not, not what we would hope for right now.

I do think this generation, generation alpha is a remarkable generation. It's the most, um, conscious, socially conscious generation that cares about the environment and cares about social justice and equity and fairness, um, in a way that.

you know, prior generations didn't until much later on. So I think you're finding this generation of kids way, way more aware of the world that they have been born into and much more active in wanting to fix it and be a part of the solution.

Jennifer: What are some things you, think girls need?

Jes: We encourage girls to find their superpower and for parents or teachers or you know, grownups in their lives to help them find that superpower confidence is the single biggest predictor of success. For a kid, and so how can we all help girls find their superpower, nurture it, build on that so that they can build that confidence that they're really good at something and they learn how to keep trying.

They learn perseverance and tenacity. They learn about failures and picking themselves up again. They learned about success, so, so my biggest advice is how do we help every girl find her superpower and help her? , develop it further and further and further.

Jennifer: Yeah. And one of the ways we're doing that is with these inspiring literal biographical fairy tales with rebel girls. I wanna talk about rebel girls. I love the mission so much. I would love you to share with us what that is and how you are accomplishing, or shall I say, crushing it thus far?

Jes: So we are a purpose-driven company and our mission is to help raise the most inspired and the most confident global generation of girls today. So everything we do is in service of is this helping to inspire? This is is this helping to build confidence in girls? We are a storytelling driven company. So we tell many, many, many, many stories in many different formats and continually expanding formats.

We're most known for our stories about real life, amazing women and girls throughout history throughout the world, all different fields of excellence. I think we've told the stories of more than 400 professions to date,

Jennifer: Wow.

Jes: we wanna give girls real life role models that they can see themselves in, whether it's the.

Background or language or interest or skin color or perspective. We wanna give them all sorts of role models that inspire them and help them feel like they too can become whoever they want to be and, and self-actualize in that way. So we have a book line, we have an audio storyline. We're developing video and experiences, um, and other kind of consumer products around that.

Everything is in service of this mission of building confidence in a generation of girls and helping them feel truly seen and represented.

Jennifer: Yeah. And what's the journey been like thus far? I know that the co-founder started sometime in 2016, and here we are in 2023 today.

Jes: So there's two co-founders in 2016 who had this idea for the first book, goodnight Stories for Rebel Girls. And they observed that only 19% of children's books have female characters with agency. So a job or even career ambition. And they wanted to change that. And so they started with an idea on Kickstarter for this book about showcasing a hundred women throughout history who have paved the. It was the most successful Kickstarter in publishing history at the time, and they self-published at the end of 2016, so about six years ago. And that's how we got our start. Um, I came on board four years ago when they'd done the first two books on Kickstarter, and since then we've been growing. And so we have 24 titles in English so far, and we have another 10 coming out.

This. We've built up a podcast to be a, you know, 20 million download podcast of these amazing stories, and we're creating new content every single week in our audio formats. And we've been expanding into live events, virtual events, building that community, bringing girls together, um, as well as a number of other like storytelling mediums and products.

Jennifer: Love how you're appearing at all the various mediums where kids might wanna find you. I love the podcast version and the live events too, where. in the podcast version. Sometimes that works better for families. I know that those are meant for both adults and kids too.

So adults can enjoy while I'm listening with my nieces . And then the offense I know you hold those at bookstores across the country, which is wonderful. Your reach year to year and growth has also been really aspirational. What was your goal for 2023?

Jes: We aspire to reach about 10 million girls every.

Jennifer: Mm-hmm.

Jes: So our kind of cumulative numbers now are, um, eight and a half million books sold and 20 million podcast downloads. We have 10 million music streams, almost 2 million players on Cahoot, and we're building out building out a bunch of other things as we speak.

Jennifer: Yeah. I have to say the girls are also a great, uh, flywheel for you because they end up recommending it to all their friends. They end up loving the books and recommending the books.

Jes: Oh, there we, we love, we're getting all sorts of. from girls who are sharing that they started Rebel Girls book clubs at school and they get together and they read the books and they talk about who they love the most and parents who've been having Rebel girls birthday parties and all these empowering activities for girls at their birthday parties.

And so that, that is a huge flywheel. The other huge flywheel for us is, um, that parents who have these books love them. And so they also gift them. And this becomes a really popular item to gift to the girls' friends and, um, other like loved ones in life. And so we have a really strong community of, you know, an audience that enjoys this, loves this, wants more of this, and wants to pass it along,

Jennifer: Yeah. Again, I'm squarely in that demographic, done this, and I'll even tell you when I discovered Rebel Girls, the first book, this was 2019, I was. in grad school I was walking in the library and I was going home for a winter break and I had been looking for something meaningful and this just really stood out.

I think the art was gorgeous. Uh, just even the notion of a book that covered so many different women across fields, so not just a politician or an athlete, but you also had scientists and you could have all different versions of what a powerful woman pursuing their dreams could be. And to your point, each of those being the lead character, I had to get it for the girls.

It's been wonderful for them to have examples of female leaders that have done things that they can call on and tell any classmates that don't believe they can do it. Say, Hey, I know this person and that person, and I know you have some other powerful anecdotes from your community as well, of the impact Rebel Girls has had on the girls and the kids.

Any ones you wanna call out that really stand out to you, that you love.

Jes: Um, there's one this summer that was beautiful. We came out with a book on awesome entrepreneurs.

Jennifer: Mm-hmm.

Jes: Which is near and dear to my heart, especially as only 2% of venture funding goes to women.

Jennifer: Yes,

Jes: we want to celebrate those that are building. Um, and one of the girls who received this book, who's a kinda a nine or 10 year old girl who was really shaken by the pandemic and had a lot of anxiety and wasn't going outside and, and suffering from a.

Kind of mental health stuff that we'd discussed earlier. And she read the book and it has these 25 examples of these amazing women who've built these businesses. And then the back of the book is a step-by-step guide for her to start her own business. So she started her own like string bracelet business and got really inspired by that.

And so she ended up. Put building a little website and put making a little store for string bracelet business. And that built up her confidence and she started going outside again. And she even joined a sports team. And like these were steps of her coming out from her anxiety and reemerging into the world with confidence.

And so that's the kind of thing that really makes it worthwhile,

Jennifer: I can only imagine. And to do that every day makes all the grinding that I'm sure happens many days so worth it.

One thing that I wanna call out that we've talked about, we've talked about the value of representation and how you need to see it to believe it and or to feel like you can be it. Um, , a beautiful thing about your approach and the team's approach is highlighting diversity and representation. And I know you've covered hundreds of stories of women and you've had over 500 pieces of artwork and artists and wanted to get your approach and the team's approach as well as what you've learned that parents and other leaders can incorporate

Jes: yeah. Well, our goal is that every girl. In the entire world can find at least one, hopefully dozens, but at least one role model that really speaks to her. And to do that, we need to have really, really, really diverse storytelling. Um, and then to do that even better, we need to have that storytelling be as authentic as possible in terms of, Not just about who it's about, but who is telling that story.

And so when we think about authentic representation and diverse storytelling, it's really in, in kind of two buckets. The first is the subjects, like who are we telling the stories about? And then the second is, who is creating these stories and I, and telling those stories. So on the first part, , you know, we have lists and lists and lists and lists.

of thousands and thousands of women, um, for consideration and nominations from our community and partners and all of that. Um, a and so, you know, when we pick projects, we go back to that list. We do a lot of research. We really try and make any anthology be. As representative geographically as possible, um, professionally as possible, different characteristics that make us unique and different as possible.

Um, we love being able to put someone in the books from a country we haven't yet featured or profession. We haven't yet featured. Like any of these things are kind of. Extra yays from a team perspective. Um, and, and so that's kind of the how we select women question. And then the second piece is who tells those stories and how do we make sure that the stories are as representative as possible, and the artwork is as representative as possible.

And so, , we tend to have these themes for these books and try and get everyone who's working on that project to, to be representative of that. So, you know, in, in 21 we had a book on Black Girl Magic. And so we worked with about 70 black women to write edit illustrate. Like all, all those stories narrate the audio stories, like have that be their collective.

of like what this is. Um, the book we did last year was on young girls, so ages 10 to 30. Excuse me,

Jennifer: no worries.

Jes: Um, and so all the way we got, you know, almost a hundred women and girls ages 10 to 30 to write, edit, illustrate, et cetera, like this book, so that it was their collective vision of.

these stories and bringing them to life. Um, and, and, and, and that's, I think, worked really well for us and been really exciting for us and been really exciting to also be able to feature a whole bunch of different kinds of artists. Um, that's on the book side, on the audio side, um, same thing. We pair the narrator.

With the subject so that the voice is as representative as possible. One of my favorite episodes we did last year was on, Isabella Spring Mule, who is this young, um, Guatemala fashion designer who's just incredible and she has Down Syndrome. And we got Jamie Brewer, who's the first, um, fashion model to walk the New York Fashion Week with Down Syndrome to.

The voice and be the story of Isabella. And, and you know, we got even girls kind of writing to us who said, you know, I have Down Syndrome and I heard this story and this voice and it spoke to me and I felt so seen.

Jennifer: Mm-hmm.

Jes: like that kind of pairing and intentionality for that girl made all the difference in the world.

Jennifer: Yeah. And that's what matters really, is having that little girl, if it's one girl feel seen and represented, and that she can do something, whatever it is that her dream is

Jes: And that's how she, we build her confidence.

Jennifer: Yeah, that's lovely. What is it about the six to 12 year age range that causes this lack of confidence?

Have you found anything that we can work off of here? Again, three of my nieces are six to 12.

Jes: Well, age six is when the confidence gap starts. So age six is when girls start thinking that they're less smart and less capable than boys. Um, I think we can cause, you know, have the causation attribute it to different factors, one being media and the stories we, we tell and showcase and all of that. Um, the second being how, how kids are raised.

And so there's been some recent studies coming out about. How parents and teachers, you know, encourage girls and boys ages six to 10, 12 differently. So, you know, parents are more, two times more likely to encourage boys to go into coding than girls. They're three times more likely to encourage girls to go into to cook than boys.

know, they're three times more likely to encourage boys to go into programming or sports, or even Lego play than. But parents are four times more likely to encourage girls to go into dance or play than boys. And so we still are encouraging our children in different ways.

Then we have.

Jennifer: a lot of bias

in

Jes: a lot of bias still,

but all of us then, then you have the media, right?

In entertainment where you still have only a third of characters or, or female characters. And female characters who are protagonists still use magic to save the day, versus male characters tend to use STEM skills or strength. Um, So, so there's still a lot in this system that is telling girls and boys different stories about themselves and their place in society and, and we think that should probably change

Jennifer: Yeah. 1000%. How about inspiring girls in an effective way? Any other insights that your team has uncovered?

Jes: So one of the things we focus on both in our books and in our audio stories, is telling the story of this woman as when she was a girl and, and really showcasing who she was as a girl, because that increases the relatability. Of it so that a girl can be like, whether it's Oprah or Michelle Obama or Simone Biles, or it doesn't matter.

Like who, who was she when she was 6, 8, 10, 12? What challenges did she face? What obstacles, how did she think about the world? And then it progresses until, you know, she became the woman who did the thing. And like all of those things. But, um, that relatability. this person was my age and this is how this person was at my age.

I think has been a really, really key element in making the stories be like interesting, captivating, and relatable to girls.

Jennifer: Mm-hmm. totally seeing the progression. it wasn't just a snap of a finger and she was so successful and wonderful and powerful, but there was some progress to it. And she is an ordinary person in a sense. Right. She's extraordinary, but she's al you are extraordinary as well.

And being able to see that in, in her

Jes: It, it makes it so that it's not just this person on this pedestal that you could never possibly, uh, do the same things, but hey, this person was the girl and these were the major issues she had and the challenges she had, and, and this is how she overcame them and, and what formed

Jennifer: Yeah.

Jes: she grew.

Jennifer: Yeah. Beautiful. I'd love to learn more from you, Jess, as well, about the whole landscape of readership and reading, and we've got so many new things happening, literally in the past month or two, we've got the rise of AI and chat, G P T, and I'm curious, well first I'll start with how is readership doing among kids?

Jes: Readership is, is maintaining and growing. Among kids. Uh, it's last year was like a 2.6 billion market in the US for, for kids books, for, um, and I don't see that changing, you know, books have been around for hundreds and hundreds of years, and I think everyone said, you know, when each new medium came out, that that would replace books, whether it was the radio or the television or movies or the internet, or, you know, Kindle or as you will, um, I think it's been only additive that as more media has come, there's been more consumption and it's grown the pie overall. But books remain. I mean, I think in the US alone, 3 billion books were sold last year.

Um, so there's still a huge, a huge market for books and especially for kids. Kids love physical books.

Jennifer: I love

Jes: to feel them, they want to turn the pages, they wanna see the artwork,

they.

Jennifer: holding

it.

Jes: you know, I think, I think as we grow up, we get more interested in like, what can I listen to while I'm driving and whatnot. But, um, for kids, we just, we, you know, 98% of our book sales are physical books.

Jennifer: Beautiful. I'm so glad to hear that. Because I love physical. My, one of my favorite things to do is just cuddle on the couch with some candles, and just like flip my pages with some tea and my plants. It's, it's wonderful. I wish I had more time to do that, which means I need to make more time for that.

Uh, okay. And then what are we seeing. technology like iPads, et cetera, how is that for kids in learning

Jes: think it's across the board, like varied. I think there's some wonderful things about iPads and technology and some like not so great things. I think we're all conscious about screen time and how much screen time, and especially before bed and. , that piece of it. There's also some really cool learning technology that's available in real time on iPads that wasn't available before.

So, you know, our take is that there's a time and a place for an iPad and there's a time and a place for not an iPad. Um, you know, We, we built our app for iPhones and iPads. It's a screen limited app, so it's a predominantly listening experience, um, that can be done really well at bedtime and kind of is for that use case.

So, So, we participate. in a very thoughtful way. Um, and I'd say, you know, yeah, you can do a lot of learning on an iPad and you can do a lot of learning on a, with a physical book.

Jennifer: Yeah, totally. All right. Chad, g p t and ai, my whole thing is, are my nieces and future kids just gonna be writing essays by telling Chachi Fu Tee to do this?

Are they gonna learn to write themselves? What are your thoughts?

Jes: Great question. ? Um, I don't know the answer.

Jennifer: Right. Who

knows? Nobody knows what's gonna happen.

Jes: It's, it's probably both. Probably Cha GBT is gonna write their essays and they're going to know how to write themselves. Um, I think about even our growing up, right when we were kids, like I learned how to.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Jes: know, pen and paper and then computers came out and we had little typing classes on computers and then later in life the cell phone came out and we learned how to like type on that.

And now, you know, I dictate to my cell phone and I tell it. What I want it to write and send to people and whatnot. And so chat, g b t is kind of the next step of this progression of technology that makes us more efficient and gives us more time and more productivity and allows us to communicate better and faster and, and, you know, more ways.

And I still know how to write. I don't do it very often with a pen and paper. Um,

Jennifer: My handwriting is terrible. Honestly,

Jes: it's awful.

Jennifer: it's probably a good thing that I can just type nowadays.

Jes: Or tell the, tell the phone what you want it to

Jennifer: that's very progressive of you, Jess, that you're telling I am trying to not be a grandma and talk to Siri more and get with the time. So I love hearing that you do that,

Jes: it's um, you know, I think there's a time and a place for all things.

Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. And we'll see, we'll see what the future holds in store for us.

Okay.

Jes: but I'll just, I'll just put out there like, how cool would it be if Chad g b t could tell rubble girl stories? And any girl could say, tell me a story about X. And she could have a story about, you know, instantly all the women in her lives. Like, how, how amazing would that be to tell, not thousands, but tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of stories of women with technology.

I think that that would be really cool.

Jennifer: You know what you just made me think about. What if it, what if we could, or future girls could ask chat G B T, Hey, tell me a story about me and how powerful I can become, and then do like 50 iterations of that and how empowering will that be for, for girls and future? My goodness, my mind's

Jes: completely. And then maybe they can share that story with others and celebrate like their power and their dreams and their hopes and.

Jennifer: Yeah. And speaking of representation, you need to see it to believe it. Feel like they believe that these things or these versions of their futures can manifest if they just then do it. All

Jes: think that'd be cool.

Jennifer: Jess, I gotta ask you a question. So I have a friend in the Bay Area and she has two boys and one girl, and she. In our age group, and has been very cognizant of the fact that girls historically have not had as much opportunity. So she's really invested in her daughter. However, she's noticed recently that, you know what, it's hard to actually get books for her son and wants to be cognizant about not tipping over too much such that now her boys feel like, they can't do anything.

Right? And so how do we invite boys into the conversation, empower them as well, and have girls and boys be together empowering each other in a way that we're not segregating boys away and making the same mistake of leaving out one whole gender.

Jes: great question. I think a lot of parents are wrestling with this right now. I, I find it hard to believe it's hard to find books and content for boys since that is the vast majority of the entire library and like entertainment world out there. Um, when you look at like any of the lists of like the a hundred greatest books of all time, like maybe a dozen were written by women, maybe depending on the list, usually it's less than 10 on that list.

So I think there are many, many, many, many, many stories about men. Fictional real life, all of the above out there. So I don't think it's hard to find

Jennifer: That's a fair point. I wonder if it's the Bay Area in particular, or maybe her bookstore, but that's a

Jes: Yeah. It, it might be a bookstore thing, but I know if, you know, if you go to Amazon or, or any of these online places, like the library of content about whether it's Huckberry Finn and Tom Sawyer, or you know, Ernest Shackleton or, I mean, there. a lot of opportunities to find stories about amazing men who've done really cool things.

Um, I think our stories are for everyone. We, we, our, our purpose is to inspire girls because there is a confidence gap. in girls. Um, but we write these stories for families and to be enjoyed by all. And I encourage parents of boys to read these stories to their boys. Um, because there's stories about pirates and about, you know, astronauts and scientists and leaders and all sorts of mechanics and mushroom farmers and you know, like there's.

Something for everyone. And I think when, when I was growing up, you know, I always read every story of every man, boy around and no one thought any differently. Uh, that. And so I think, you know, for parents, let's read stories about boys. Let's read stories about girls. Let's read stories about all kinds of people and celebrate all kinds of people to.

You know, the genders, in terms of our children, um, our approach is not one of, um, anger

Jennifer: No, not at all.

Jes: throwing stones or blame. It's more of elevation and saying there is a gap in terms of what is available and we want to help fill that gap. Um, and, and we would encourage yeah, parents of, of everyone to.

Read them and, uh, read stories of as many kinds of people as possible and give your children the best education about the world and the wonderful diversity in the world.

Jennifer: You know, that is also a great way to reduce any bias that's happening because to your point, most stories existing are already about boys and it doesn't need to be a thing where boys read stories about boys and girls, read stories about girls, but we can have boys also reading so many stories about so many amazing women and continuing.

eat away at that bias if it comes up just because you're reading one gendered. All right, Jess, on the note of Rebel Girls, let's talk about you. We can't do this episode without talking about Jess as a rebel girl. So I know that you grew up in Oregon in a small town, and then by way of World Bank made.

Stanford, I know that, uh, prior to being the c e o of Rebel Girls, you were the c o o of Nextdoor. You were a sales leader, a consultant. I could go on and on. Very impressive. Could be intimidating, but so wonderfully kind and warm. And I'd love to break down how you got here back to that anecdote of girls wanna see how they were like You.

And so let's talk about your six to 12 years. What were those like?

Jes: Mostly underwater. Literally

Jennifer: you are a swimmer or,

Jes: I was a swimmer.

Jennifer: my nieces are all swimmers. My fam, I swim, my brother swims. They swim way better than us, but this is

Jes: this, this was, uh, six hours a day, six days a week. That was mo most of my, most of my childhood was underwater , staring at a black line.

Jennifer: Yeah. Did you feel like you had any confidence gap? Do you remember this at all

Jes: Yeah. You know, I was, um, Like swimming really defined my childhood. It, it came naturally, I think when I was five or six, you know, I started competing and there was, um, I was, you know, got all the like green and purple ribbons or whatever, and there was a girl who got all the blue ribbons and it was like, my life goal was to beat this girl into like, it's, you know, as like a six year old

So, I had that naturally as like, I want to excel and like there's someone doing this and I want to be able to do it. Um, I had a coach who was, who, you know, both was incredibly encouraging in terms of telling me like, how about this? How about this, how about this and the next, and the next and the next, and making that goal be higher and higher and higher and

higher. And so I'm very, very thankful for him for that. Um, I think sports teaches. So many things. It teaches you how to get up at 4 45 every morning and to like get yourself out of bed and dive into a cold pool. And because you're working towards something, it teaches you how to fail all the time and how to get back up teaches you that, you know, camaraderie.

In relationship buildings and and whatnot. And then with success, you build your own confidence that you can do something. And if you work hard, then you succeed, then you, that reinforces that you can get there. Um, so I have very, very positive memories. And lifelong lessons from my time swimming. I think the, the part that I really am sad about and want differently for this generation is when I grew up the way to be successful was to be a boy.

And, you know, I was taught that being a girl was pathetic. And weak and girls couldn't succeed and you couldn't show emotions and you couldn't, you know, have any of that. And so I was taught as a kid to try to be a boy in every possible way, and to be tough like a boy and to like, that was who could be successful.

And so for me to be successful, I needed to, you know, really embrace all things traditional masculine and reject all things traditional feminine. And I think that that's, um, really a shame because there's a spectrum of. Emotions and characters for all humans, male, female, et cetera. And there's strength in a lot of different places.

And, and, um, I do not think to be successful in sports you have to be a traditional masculine at all. And that's my my hope for this next generation.

Jennifer: that is so heartfelt. I also experienced this notion of. The emotions don't have a place here, and needing to be stoic per se. And I agree with you that there's so much strength in the vulnerability and. ability to have folks connect with you and see parts of you that can have so much impact.

I would say growing up, I'm super grateful for my parents because I grew up feeling like girls were smarter than boys. I don't know if you had this, and yeah, the parents and the household and the coaches and the teachers and it all combines, Okay, so a question for you Jess, is I know that around age 12, as a swimmer your body changes and as your body changes, your times change, et cetera. How did you get through that? Cuz that can be a tough period for girls in sports and parents

wanting their girls to be happy and not wanting to pressure or force them to do things. Was there anything there that kept motivating you on to stick to the sport ?

Jes: I think it was about my goals in the sport and those superseded everything. Um, so I made decision after decision to prioritize swimming over pretty much everything else

Jennifer: and that was an intrinsic, it came from you inside

Jes: Yeah, I, it was, you know, it was a combination of, it feels really good to be really good at something.

Jennifer: Mm-hmm.

Jes: it just like feels awesome to be awesome at something. And I was awesome in swimming and that was this like self-perpetuating cycle of, you know, the better I performed, the more motivated I would be, the faster I would get, the more motivated I would be, the more you know, and, and, um, and therefore the goals kept getting higher and higher.

And so for me personally, like I'm a very like goal driven person in that, um, you know, momentum is the best motivator I've found. And so when you have that momentum and you, you write it and, and so yes, body changes, yes. A whole bunch of other things came in that period. Um, but those were just challenges to overcome in service of like this greater goal that I had for my life and what I wanted to achieve.

Um, you know, definitely helped by my coach who kept being like, oh, well, like. Wouldn't it be nice if you like won nationals or like, what, here's a, here's the time to get top hundred in the world, or here's a, you know, like showing me all these like next things that expanding my horizon of what was possible.

And you know, my parents were supportive of all of this. You know, there, there wasn't a lot of like, oh, do you really wanna do this? But you know, there was an encouragement that this was my superpower. So, yeah, I, it was mostly me, you know, the, the naysayers were like , you know, my grandmother when I was about 13 told me I needed to stop swimming because, um, I had big muscles and boys wouldn't like my big muscles

And I was like, that's nice, like not relevant, you know,

Jennifer: but your big

Jes: you don't understand my goals in life,

Jennifer: so cool. Yeah,

Jes: But nuclear family was pretty support.

Jennifer: Mm-hmm. . And I'm hearing a lot of Jess herself was pretty motivated and committed. And then obviously the sports and the discipline carried through with you in your twenties, your thirties in your career, et cetera.

You told us about this girl who had the best time, who was your rebel girl back then. Any other rebel girls that inspired you and who were your rebel girls?

Jes: Yeah, so there was always, I mean, I can list with you the names of like every female swimmer from age six on. That was like the next person to like idolize. There was a long string of them, Um, there's, uh, there's a few today. Who I think are like incredibly amazing for different aspects of my life.

I tend to gravitate towards athletes and, you know, entrepreneurs and business leaders is like, those are the two things that I relate most to. And so most of my heroes are in those two buckets. Um, one of my heroes is a woman named Kit Delorier, and she was the first person, uh, man or woman to climb and ski Everest in the seven summits.

Jennifer: Wow,

Jes: Yeah. And she did that when she was like

in,

Jennifer: no joke.

Jes: yeah, no joke. , um, she did that in her like late thirties and just decided to do it and I mean, her life is awesome. In terms of just like what she's achieved and her strength and her resolve and the challenges she's overcome and how she also contributes back to the world and the environment.

And, and now she has two, two daughters of her own. And, and so I, I love her story and some of the stories like that of, um, bold, audacious goals and what it takes to do 'em.

There's.

Jennifer: gender barriers slash norms.

Jes: um, there's a woman named Osma Ishak, who is the c e O of Modera, who is really inspiring to me. She, um, wasn't born in this country, was the first woman in her family to go to college, put herself through multiple degrees, invented, Health and wellness products back, you know, in like the two thousands, was one of the first in like the collagen space built her company, sold it took over.

The bigger company has, you know, built it. 10 X is now in like 50 countries and doing more and more in just like really building out a model in the wellness space. Um, employing you. Hundreds of thousands of women around the world. Um, I just think she has a very, very phenomenal story about what she's done and how she's done it.

I've got another woman friend, her name is Wendy McMahon. She now is the president of CBS News and Stations. Started out, you know, doing marketing for a single news station in New Orleans and has worked her way up and embraced digital and embraced this legacy business and how to innovate and how to grow and nurture and have done all the things.

And I just think. Story of how she's gotten there and how she sees the world and what she zones in on and how she builds is very, very inspirational too. So I, I don't think there are any shortage of amazing women out there doing super cool things.

Jennifer: Yeah, as you were saying too, it's so beautiful to see how every story is different and to each of these women, including yourself, someone can resonate. I think my nieces would love your story. They're all swimmers. They're all going through the stuff that you were describing, your friend, Wendy,

kit who summited I can't believe I didn't know this. Maybe I'm just under a literal rock. And there's just so many different flavors I love this phrase of how every experience a human being is going through.

There is another human being out there who can relate. And that's what's so powerful about these stories and about sharing, sharing the rebel girls stories with all the. Beautiful, beautiful mission. I wanna ask you, Jess, what are the routines that allow you to perform today

Jes: yeah. I'm a big believer in work hard, play hard. . And so if I don't get enough time to to play, then my work suffers. So making time for fun, making time for play is really important to me. Um, my play is predominantly in the outdoor activity space, so I like to climb mountains and ski down them, or go surfing or go for bike rides or

Jennifer: You're

so fun. When am I coming over?

Jes: when are you

coming over?

Jennifer: I'm gonna do it. I'm telling you next time I'm coming.

Jes: Good Um, yeah, so, so playing and playing outside is something that just keeps me so incredibly grounded, and in the best possible like mental space and physical space and emotional space to, to work. Um, so, so that's number one. I think, you know, number two is, is sleep is critical.

And you know, back in my twenties, I would sleep four hours a night. Do not do that anymore, like fully love. Sleeping and recharging. Um, and number three is hanging out with my dog.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Jes: she is my, she is a German Shepherd husky mix, and she's got one floppy ear and she does all the outdoor play with me. So we bond over that.

But um, dogs are pretty amazing creatures that bring out the, like best in us and the silliness in us.

And so I think, you know, spending, spending time with my dog, especially outside is, is something that enables me to be my best self.

Jennifer: Yeah. I am also a coach and one of the things I hear a ton of entrepreneurs, founders, et cetera, Go through is whenever it gets busy, they start to sacrifice the play or the rest, or the, the eating right. And that inevitably leads to burnout. And so important to make sure you're prioritizing that.

and then on dogs, my goodness, I feel like they just wear their emotions on their sleeves. It's so endearing. Just look at any dog. I think it's impossible not to love them. They're just,

Jes: My,

my

Jennifer: can tell how they're feeling.

Jes: my favorite part of, of, of being a dog owner is that, You can actually give joy to a dog, right? Like absolute unbounded joy. And that's what I mean, we would love to give to humans, right? But it's so hard to give that kind of just,

um, level of joy to humans, but to a dog, you can make them so happy.

They're so excited and that's contagious.

Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. All right. I would love to end Jess with. Coming back to where we started about the Rebel Girls Journey, we talked about 2016, how the founders were running this Kickstarter.

It was the most successful one in publishing history. 2016 was also the time when Hillary Clinton was running for president and unfortunately lost or just lost. And today we've seen in 2020. Some progress. So we have a Finnish Prime minister. We am so proud that Jacinda Arden of New Zealand stepped down on her own terms.

We talked about entrepreneurs, 2% of venture funding going to women. I see that slowly progressing more to be done, of course. More biases being broken down. But we've seen some progress happen for women and we are gonna share this with the audience on women's. it's such a great time to share this powerful story and so curious, what would you hope for women in the seven years ahead?

Jes: So I agree. We've made some progress. I think this is the first year that 10% of the Fortune 500 was as being run by women. Um, I think there's a lot of progress to go so. in the next seven years would I like, instead of 10% of Fortune 500 to be by women, 50% run by

women. Yeah.

Jennifer: Or representative of the population,

Jes: instead of 2% of venture funding going to women, would it be nice for 50% of venture funding to go to women?

Yes. That would be fantastic. Um, do I hope that 50% of the Senate and the Congress and our mayors and our governors are women like? Yes. Um, I think there are. . You know, if, think about the, you know, entertainment industry, could 50% of movie producers be women or the music industry of, you know, record label owners and managers be women?

I think there's a lot of room for, um, more representative leadership, ownership, um, seats at the table, whichever table that is. So let's celebrate the progress we've made and let's keep pushing because there's a long way.

Jennifer: Yeah. And let's make it representative. Love that. Justice was so beautiful to have you on. Thanks for spending the time with us today and stay Revel, which I love that you say that.

Jes: Thank you Jennifer, and definitely stay rebel

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