The Jennifer Kamara Podcast

Shaniqua: One thing that I always told people working, um, on Capitol Hill when I answered the phones. not everyone's calling our, and you know, your elected officials are hearing from the public, but they're hearing from a very small group normally who have like, um, a minority viewpoint on something. But that's who's really driving the interest of, um, what the elected official thinks the larger community believes in.

So make your voice heard as well.

Jennifer: Hey, JK P. Crew. What a joy. This conversation with s Shaniqua was for me. She's the VP of Politics at Crooked Media. She tells me all about what Crooked Media's vision is, how folks like you and I can work on the things we feel are broken in our political system. She gives us really good action items that we can all work on.

And for me though, the biggest treat was learning about her journey, what growing up was like. How that propelled her to get to where she is today. There's themes of going beyond her wildest dreams and manifesting a powerful life for herself, which I'm so, so happy about. So enjoy this one. She's wonderful.

Jennifer: Hi,

Shaniqua: Hi. Yeah, look at your background

Jennifer: I'm so happy to see you. It's the SES class.

Shaniqua: I know, I know. I was like, man, how long has it been? And now

he's

Jennifer: know we gr I know. I loved getting his email, his like retirement email. Ah, so many good memories. We should do a reunion. Where

Shaniqua: That would be nice. I live in dc um, um, now I actually left LA a year ago. I moved here about a year ago from la so, um, yeah, even, I've been back to LA probably five or six times since then, but I am here.

Jennifer: beautiful. We actually may visit a friend in Baltimore. Her husband's a resident at Johns Hopkins this summer, so if we do that, I will hit you up.

Shaniqua: Let

Jennifer: to see you in person.

Shaniqua: Yeah.

Jennifer: Yay. All right. Did you bring something of comfort with you today?

Shaniqua: Okay. So this may not be exactly what you were thinking, but this sweatshirt and chair are like my favorite things, Um, and you like I had to lower the shade because the, it doesn't look that good, but like, I just like sitting next to this window and like doing whatever I can in this chair. So this is like the perfect place and this sweatshirt is just very cozy.

So you. Um, that is actually, I , the word cozy is just something I use all the time. Like, if I feel cozy, then I'm in a good place That might be like this chair and sweatshirt. I also, um, I got this down blanket on, um, down comfort on, uh, black Friday.

Jennifer: yeah,

Shaniqua: perfect. I love going to sleep. I like turn the heat down so I can just like wrap myself in the blanket.

So just whatever makes me cozy and these are two things that make me feel

Jennifer: I. , I'm all about it. Shaniqua, I am all about like the touch, the way things feel. I also have a blanket that is like the softest thing ever that I love cuddling with. Uh, and then your chair, this is like animal print. This is like leopard print. I'm into it

Shaniqua: You know, it's funny, my mother growing up, I mean, I think it was overkill, but she had like a leopard, uh, bedspread set and curtains and just like everything, she like loved it so much and I just thought it was so tacky. And then I started getting older and I was like, man, I have like leopard shoes, sweaters.

This chair now is probably the, the boldest statement, but you know, they say you become your parents as you get

Jennifer: Ah, totally. But it's a nice statement piece. I love it. It it gives bold personality to your space.

Shaniqua: Thank you.

Jennifer: So happy to have you here. So for folks who are not as familiar, you're the VP of Politics at Crooked Media, and we'll dive into that in a bit. But before we go there, I wanted to talk about your background growing up.

So if we rewind all the way to Baby Shaniqua, little Girl Shaniqua, can you describe to me what growing up was like for.

Shaniqua: Yeah. Um, you know, it's interesting to ask that question because I like wrote about that in the class we took together. Um, and that was my first piece to ever be published,

Jennifer: Great. Everyone should go read the

Shaniqua: yes. Well, it's called, it's called Baby Steps. It's in, um, Boston Globe Magazine. I think that was 2017 when it was published. Um, but I actually wrote that article.

I was inspired to write it because I found out my younger sister was pregnant. and it just made me start reflecting on growing up with a single mother. Um, and that that would probably be the experience my younger sister had. And, and, you know, just grappling with the fact that I felt like it would be hard for her, but it really made me process, um, because the first version of that, uh, essay was very much like, asking, why is my sister gonna embark on single motherhood?

You know? And then I started to dig a little deeper and it was a question of, okay, well why am I having such a strong reaction to this? And it's because I was the product of a single mother and it, it wasn't that easy. You know, my parents, um, they, they were married when they, I have a twin sister. They were married when they had me and my twin sister, but they were 19 when they had me and my twin sister.

And so, you know, I think it's the thing. people, uh, did back then you're pregnant, you get married, you know, it's, it's what you do. Um, but their marriage was not great. There was a lot of arguing. Um, you know, I saw that at a young age and, you know, I've worked through a lot of that with, with my therapist, but seeing that is hard when you're young.

Um, so yeah, my, uh, parents ended up splitting up when, uh, me and my twin sister were nine years old, and my younger sister was four years old because she's five years younger than us. Um, and we moved to North Carolina where my mother's side of the family is from. We moved in with my grandmother who lived in, um,

She lived in a three bedroom house, but our uncle, her brother, lived in one of the rooms and kind of stayed to himself. And then the four of us shared two bedrooms. Um, and, you know, there was one bathroom. So just a lot of people in one house. Um, and I mean, that definitely was not easy. I found out later, you know, the first job my mother had, um, I, I knew this.

She worked at K FFC for like two days because she did not like it. Um, and. You know, obviously she needed a job, but I didn't want her working at a fast food place and she eventually went to work as an administrative assistant

Jennifer: Wait, this was you as a nine year old being like, I don't want my mom working at a fast already. So opinionated,

Shaniqua: know. It's like, don't you need to eat like ? Um, and I think it's because when we lived in New York, um, the last job she had before we left, um, which as an adult, I'm like, oh, wow. I didn't even like, Think about what that meant. She actually worked at Planned Parenthood, like in some kind of HQ or something, which now makes so much sense.

She had like the talk with me and my twin sister when we were like eight years old, and she had all these pamphlets, , and we were just sitting on the couch like mortified, because she's like got all this like really intense stuff from Planned Parenthood

Jennifer: Yeah. I bet.

Shaniqua: and we're just like, we don't even know what this

Jennifer: My mom had to talk with me at like 15 and I was mortified. I can't imagine eight years old. Thank goodness you had your sister.

Shaniqua: I know we were just sitting there and I think it's, my mother was always someone who, um, I mean, one, she had us at 19, so she always said like, I trust you all, but I know my, like childhoods. I don't put anything past you and I just wanna make sure you have all the information, um, that you need. Um, and you know, I did not use that information for some time.

Um,

Jennifer: you had it

Shaniqua: I, I did have it. Um, and so, you know, in North Carolina, um, so she had that big office job in New York. And so when we got to North Carolina, I wanted her to have another office job because that was the way it was supposed to be. And I think that, um, working at K F C to me meant that people could see that we didn't have a lot, but if she went into an office job, people couldn't tell.

Uh, even though I found out later she was making $22,000 a year. office job at, uh, Wacovia, which is, uh, Wells Fargo now. Um, and she ended up having to pick up a second job in food service, um, at Domino's Pizza delivering pizzas. And again, you know, I struggled with that, which again, children don't always understand things.

She did what she had to do to make sure that her three children were okay, but she delivered pizza to my classmates' house. And I remember one time in particular, , you know, happened to my sister, my twin sister, her fifth grade teacher had, um, a sleepover for all the, uh, girls in the class and they ordered pizza.

And my mother ended up being the person who delivered the pizza. And so those were the kinds of things where I was okay if we were struggling and no one knew, but I did not want the whole world and like all of my classmates to know that. And, um, you know, it just, I think it propelled me to work really hard in school, which I'm glad I worked hard, but I, I do hate that that is the reason that I was always like striving for more to like prove to people that like, you know, whatever they thought about our situation, like I was smart, I was hardworking, like I could do whatever they were doing.

It didn't matter what was going on at home and it shaped a lot of, I think my adulthood. I was always striving to like, prove to people that I was worthy of their affection and, and love and, and just, you know, friendship, anything. And when, when that is the space you operate from. , it's not healthy because you're just trying to please other people and what you need, uh, gets lost in the shuffle.

And um, you know, we also, at one point we were living in a two bedroom apartment and my mother's friends wanted to move to North Carolina, so she let them stay with us until they could get on their feet. But it was her friend and her two kids, and so now there's seven of us living in a two bedroom apartment.

And so it just, . It was a lot. Um, and I know she tried to be there for her friends and family, but it did take a toll on us. But she also was just like our biggest cheerleader. The reason she worked two jobs is so we could do as many extracurricular activities as possible. In middle school. We went on a big field trip every year.

In eighth grade, we went to. Uh, Disney World and there's two of us. So she always had to figure out a way to make sure that both of us could go. So as I got older, you know, in writing that piece, it really just kind of crystallized for me that I had been ABA embarrassed about a lot of my childhood, and it just pushed me to like build up my resume and have this story about myself that, you know, I'm great.

Don't worry about all that stuff in my past. Like, I'm here now, I'm successful. This is what you should care about. Uh, but I, I. now that I've been able to reflect more, all of those experience like made me who I am and in, in 2010, my mother actually passed away and it just made me really, really reflect on everything and.

See more of like her compassion, um, how hardworking she was and just willing to do anything for her kids, um, and gave me a, it's funny, I feel like since she's died, I've one, gotten a fuller pic fuller picture of who she is, and I've just been able to process our relationship more, um, in a way that like, I don't know what it would've looked like or how that would've happened if she was still alive.

Jennifer: Your mom is so strong from what you're describing, having to take care of the four of you, and then being so generous to even get her friends to come on board, and I see so much of that fierceness and strength in you right now as you're talking. .

Shaniqua: thank you.

Jennifer: I like we know each other, we know each other through a class.

And I just one class. So not even that well, but I know you a little bit and this makes so much more sense, kind of your fierceness and your willpower, um, but also your ability to help others and it's your like a big, bright, shining light. I feel so

Shaniqua: thank you,

Jennifer: adoration for you.

Shaniqua: nice.

Jennifer: It's the truth. Um, and how is your relationship with your sisters?

Your twin sister and your baby sister.

Shaniqua: yeah, my twin sister, um, It's, it's, it's, I'm not gonna call it weird now, but like we did everything together. Um, so I don't mean weird in a bad way, just that like, we're not kids who literally do everything together anymore. Um, we both worked at, do we? Exactly. And you know, I think when we went to college is when it was like, oh, we're not like attached to the hip anymore because we made a deliberate decision to go to different colleges.

and then the twin, like we both had twins at our schools who were like, of course we went to the same school and we were like, oh, I guess we're like a little different. Um, but the relationships are good. Um, you know, my, my twin sister's married now and so that's when I said, it's weird. It's because it's different now.

You know, she has someone else who's like always there who she calls first for things. Um, and it's okay that I'm not that person. Um, and her husband is,

Jennifer: too, right? For you

Shaniqua: Yes,

Jennifer: growing as individuals with your own interests and not needing to be all the time together.

Shaniqua: yeah. Now, and I imagine that her husband would be weirded out if I was like, you know, the third wheel all the time, um, in, in their marriage.

Um, but it's been, um, you know, when she was in graduate school, she went to Howard for her mba. I was living up here in DC and we lived together I'm really happy we got that time together because it was the last time we got to live together and just, you know, I don't know, be adults as sisters because, you know, we left high school and then went to, or to different colleges.

Um, and I think that we, I think. , maybe we were like 24, 25 when we were living together then. And just, you know, a lot had happened in that time. Like a lot happens between 17 and 24. Um, and we were experiencing those things separately with, you know, friends but not necessarily with, um, each other who had been together all that time.

And so it was good to. , get to know each other as adults and just be able to, to be friends, like separate from being sisters, but just have that adult, uh, friendship. And my younger sister, we are in a much better place now, I'll be honest. Um, we struggled a bit in the last few years and I've, I've talked to my therapist a lot about this.

Something that she has struggled with is when. It's weird because I have a twin sister, but it was when I left for college. You know, she always says, you left and you, you didn't call, you didn't like come back a lot. And um, and just how unfair that was. And one thing that I really tried to impress upon her was that, I know that she valued having me there, but my mother worked two jobs, so a lot of responsibility was put on me, even though we were, I have a twin sister. I was treated as the oldest. Um, I mean, I am the oldest by 19 minutes, but that's not like, you know, huge in the grid. Yeah. . Um, but you know, I, I cook dinner a lot.

I was cleaning up and as I got older, and still had to do those things. I was in extracurricular activities, I had my own job. And so by the time I went to college, I was like, hi, . You know, I am going to college. I'm gonna finally like, just have to worry about myself and, and you know, not be irresponsible, but yeah.

Yeah. But you know, my younger sister didn't process it that way and saw it, um, as something that was harmful to her. And because of. that resentment manifested in different ways in our relationship where we got into some pretty ugly arguments, quite frankly. Um, and one, um, happened, I, I think it was during Covid, oh, I mean still during Covid, but at the height of it.

And we just stopped speaking for about a year and a half. Um, and she, she tried to reconcile a few times, but it was hard for me because, I knew our relationship had been shaky and I was making a concerted effort to rebuild it. And then we had this huge argument where she just said some things that I, I just. I just, you know, did not think, um, I, I thought she crossed the line. Um, and so we've, you know, some time went by and we started to speak again. And for me, a big part of it was I wasn't getting time with my nephew, um, who, you know, he knew who my twin sister was, and I felt like, wow, does he even know he has another aunt?

Um, because I wasn't talking to my sister and I was in LA at the time, so I. , you know, I would see him over the holidays, but, but that was it. And having a relationship, uh, with him is, is very important to me. And so, you know, we were able to make up and get to a better place. And, you know, now my, uh, nephew knows, he has two aunts and, you know, I don't know how, but at four years old, he knows how to FaceTime US Um, and we'll just like call us and say, Hey aunties, what you doing? Um, so that's good.

Jennifer: That's beautiful. It's all, it's so tough. Especially like y'all had like a lot going on growing up, and it sounds like maybe your baby sister almost transferred that motherly relationship to you

and felt hurt and at the same time, I can totally see how. You needed time to yourself cuz you've been taking care of everyone.

And so I think it's tough, especially with these family relationships where you have so many, so many things underneath the

Shaniqua: yeah. So many layers.

Jennifer: triggered. But I'm so happy to hear that y'all are doing better now. And I love the nephew. I have four nieces and

Shaniqua: Oh, wow.

Jennifer: of my my world. So I can't even imagine what it's like for you to have this, your nephew in your life.

Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. . It, it, it's wonderful.

Jennifer: Yeah, it's the best. So then how amidst all of this Shaniqua, did you get interested in politics?

Shaniqua: Yeah. Um, so I. Have always been very like, aware of, um, you know, growing up poor. But my first reaction to that was, let me find a job that will pay me a lot of money so that I never have to worry about that again. And in college I majored in, um, business and journalism and my in intern, my summer internships were all in financial services.

and my first internship actually led to a job. I worked at a bank doing like market research, but during the school year they would let me, um, you know, be a bank teller. But that just opened my eyes to a lot of, uh, bad things in, in society. I spent a lot of time working in a bank in downtown Durham, North Carolina, uh, which looks very different now from when I grew up there. you know, we had these sales goals. We had to get people to open checking accounts and get money markets and and credit cards, and that was part of the metrics they measured my success by. And so I would do it, but I felt awful about it because there were people who were coming into the bank who didn't have bank accounts and charging them, you know, they had to make a choice.

Either we were gonna charge them $5 to cash their check, or they had to put a hundred dollars into an account to. a hundred dollars is a lot for people, um, especially if they have to wait three days to access it. So the account can kind of clear. And I, I just, I felt a lot of, um, you know, just, uh, confliction about doing that.

And then my final internship was at Credit Suisse, and I was in their operations, um, department. And, you know, I was just, if I remember my job correctly, I was making sure all of the internal and external information matched up that clients were seeing. But what I also saw is those clients, they had a ton of money, , uh, amounts of money that, you know, I could not even put my, my head around.

On top of that, our intern class was not that diverse, which was the same experience I had at the business school at U N C. And it just made me think a little deeper that yes, I grew up poor, but I'm not the only one. And it wasn't because my mother chose that life for us. There were a lot of decisions that, um, leaders in our country, especially politicians, were making that put a lot of people in that position.

And kind of what pushed me over the edge was reading. The world is flat in my, uh, global marketing class, and we had to pick a chapter and write a paper on it. And so I decided to write a paper on, um, chapter eight, I believe. I can't remember the title of chapter eight, but it was about education and it made me reflect on the fact that education was what had gotten me to this point.

I had been very fortunate, um, and, and done well in school. But a lot of people had not had that opportunity, and I always saw that as the reason they weren't able to access the same opportunities as me. And so that's what pushed my interest in education policy. Uh, and then my senior year at Barack Obama was running for President

So like I had this interest in education policy and then he ran for president and I was obsessed,

Jennifer: Right. It's like

Shaniqua: to the point

Jennifer: in a leader for the first time.

Shaniqua: Yes. And it inspires you, to do things. Um, yeah. And so I ended up, I remember I voted for him in the primary and I kept saying, I know Hillary Clinton's gonna win, but I just have to give him my vote, like he has to get my vote.

And then he ended up winning and it just felt so exciting. Um, and then my boyfriend at the time, so I had already graduated, um, and my boyfriend at the time sent me a White House internship application and I. okay, well I have to do this. I wanted to move to DC really bad just to be there because I have visited and enjoyed it.

Um, never thought it would be for a White House internship. And I applied and then I got the first email that like, okay, send us more material. And it just kept going. And I was just thinking, there's no way this is about to happen. And then I was working at Macy's at the time and I saw I had a voicemail.

And then I looked at my email and it said I had gotten the internship and I ran around , the entire store. Just so excited. Um, and that was an experience. But all in all, you know, getting that internship is really what solidified my interest in politics. The Affordable Care Act was passed while I was, um, a White House intern.

And just seeing all of that was amazing. And the thing, that made me wanna go to Capitol. Um, okay, wait, I just have to share these two

Jennifer: Yes, tell.

Shaniqua: I worked in , I worked in the student correspondence office. Um, and so any letter from someone under 17 would come into, uh, that office and the two letters that stick out to me, it, it, it also solidified my interest in education policy because we got a lot of letters about port infrastructure, no more physical ed or music classes, but the two letters that stand out to. forever. Um, one kid asked, um, why there was so much air in chip bags and if the president could do anything about that. And then the other a it is, I mean, it should be illegal, how much

Jennifer: I know. Yeah.

Shaniqua: Um, and then the second one was if, uh, president Obama could get Lindsey Lohan out of jail, . And so this kid was just like invested, um, in Lindsay Lohan.

Um, but you know, overall, , it pushed me to wanna work on Capitol Hill. I know that President Obama was , you know, the architect and the person who really, um, pushed for the Affordable Care Act to get passed. But it doesn't become law if it doesn't go through Congress. I'm watching Nancy Pelosi just, you know, mightily handle that, uh, process.

I remember being up at, I don't know what time in the morning it was , one or two o'clock in the morning, just watching the house floor. Like this is amazing. Like this is what I would

Jennifer: such a badass. Oh my God. It's

Shaniqua: Yeah, I know. I don't even know what it's gonna be like with her. I mean, she's still there now, but like when she actually leaves.

Um, but yeah. And then my mother. , I, um, I always say this was her parting gift to me. Um, so this was May of 2010. I told her I really wanna work on the hill. And she connected me with her coworker son, and he had worked on the hill. Um, and so he had a conversation with me and then he told me, this will probably be one of the last times you chat with me, because he was going dark to study for the bar and I only had his work information and he was leaving this job and.

So, you know, he ends the call and he's like, squa, um, I don't want anything from you. And you seem like a really smart woman. The only thing I ask is that you pay it forward. None of us get to where we are alone without anyone's help, and that has stuck with me. Um, but anyway, I later found out after I start working for Kay Hagan, uh, two or three years after I start working for her, that he's the person who sent my resume into her office.

and. . I finally three years later get to meet him in person. I get his contact information and we meet for, um, we meet for lunch and we ended up spending three hours together, just like talking. And it was just, it, it was great. Um, and he, I always tell him like, you are the reason that I was able to get that job.

And, you know, it was one of the last things my mother, um, did for me, um, before she passed away. And. , I literally would not like be sitting here. I wouldn't have this job. I wouldn't be in politics, um, if, if that didn't happen. And so I'm just always grateful, um, to them. And I don't know if Jake is a Republican or not, but I mean, I, I sense that he might be, I could be completely wrong, but it's one of the things I, hold on sometimes I hope he is so I can hold onto the fact that like there's still

like. just good people regardless of their, um, you know, politics. They just wanna, you know, help people and, and be

Jennifer: Yeah. We're all human beings at the end of the day, and we can see the goodness in each other. It's such a beautiful thing. I was so struck you started with the fact that you were poor and you didn't wanna be poor anymore, and you just wanted to not have to worry about money because I resonate. So I grew up in Sierra Leon, and it's the seventh poorest country in the world, and I so resonate with that feeling of just like wanting this sense of safety.

For me, it's like that I have shelter, that I don't have to worry about my home and where I'm living and I don't like, have to worry for my personal safety. So I really, really resonate with that about the money as well. And

then

Shaniqua: makes a difference.

Jennifer: it does, it does. Especially for folks that grow up without it. Um, and then what you mentioned about like, it's so crazy how you couldn't see.

Really for yourself this life, but then seeing Barack Obama as an example, and then whoa, he got elected and then God bless this ex-boyfriend who sent you this internship , because it sounds like you weren't

Shaniqua: everybody serves a purpose.

Jennifer: Yeah. and, and it got you there. And it's, it's wild how there's so many of these moments for us in life where, for instance, like where I don't, I don't even think this would be an opportunity for me, and someone pushes me to try it, and it, and it opens up these doors.

And so I guess what I wanna highlight for listeners is more of the story. Surround yourself with people who push you, who believe in you and believe in yourself. Most importantly. And, and pay it forward as well. And, and with all these people, I think it was Jake who helped you along the way and, and when you get helped lift others up to, because we definitely don't get where we are just by ourselves.

It's a community, it's a village effort.

Shaniqua: Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer: Okay. So today as VP of Politics at Crooked Media, I wanted us to talk more about, for folks who are not familiar with what your role would entail in giving folks a sense of what that's like. But maybe we can start with, I know the crooked media story. I, I find it interesting and maybe you could share with folks how it all started.

Started not too long ago.

Shaniqua: No. Um, we will, we may have turned six already. I'm looking at the calendar. we're somewhere in the six years old range. Um, but yeah, crooked. Um, before Crooked there was a podcast called Keeping It 1600 that, um, John Favreau, John Lovett, Tommy Veto, and Dan, um, Pfeiffer hosted all four former Obama staffers.

Um, and I remember listening to the podcast in grad school, um, because it was kind of how I was keeping up with the election. And then election day happened and their episode after election day, I. They, you know, like many of us thought there's no way Donald Trump will win, um, the election. And he did. And even though, you know, they seemed to feel guilty that they were so, um, certain that Donald Trump wouldn't win.

But we, I mean, a lot of us were,

Jennifer: We were all living in a bubble, unfortunately.

Shaniqua: especially, you know, being, um, up in Cambridge. I don't know the, the, the emotion that they had on that episode. Like, I wasn't mad at them. Who could you really be mad at? You know, voters chose who they chose. Um, but it was just nice to have, I don't know, someone to experience with and kind of hear from people who were feeling exactly how you felt.

And, you know, I was not the only person who felt that way because that's why the, the podcast did so well and because of the success. They decided to relaunch it under their own company, crooked Media, which is a play on Donald Trump calling the media Crooked. Um, and, uh, launched Pods Save America, which is the, the show that we have now.

But the reason they launched, um, the podcast, but especially the company. , um, well, I should say the company is because they didn't like the conversation that was happening within political media. They felt like the media played a huge role in Donald Trump being elected, uh, by the stories they chose to cover.

And then the big part was so often we watch the news, we hear about all the bad things that, that are happening, but no one ever says, this is how you can fix it. And that is specifically one of the things that they wanted to do, um, which is why I got hired, um, in

Jennifer: Yeah.

Shaniqua: Yeah. Um, it, you know, it's really cool and, um, if there's time I can tell the, my story about my failures that led me here.

But, um, yeah, I, uh, in my second interview, which was with, um, fab John fau, which I remember when he was talking to me, I was like, S Shaniqua, um, you have to speak back. This is not the podcast , like he's actually talking to you. but he told me that, he said, you know, we never plan to have this position, but we have this huge audience.

They are ready to go, and we want to make sure that they're doing the most impactful work that they can be doing. Um, and yeah, that's why I was brought on and it's, I've been here, it'll be five years in

May, and it's just, it's been amazing. I couldn't have thought of a better job and just a quick story about how I even got this

Jennifer: Yeah. Please tell us about your failure.

Shaniqua: I, um, you know, I, so while I was at the White House, one of our speakers, and I wish I could remember which one, but I know it was either, um, melody Barnes or Robert Gibbs, they had a speaker series for the interns. Said, I really think it was Melody Barnes though. She said, um, , you know, I know everyone gets up here and tells you about all the highlights of their career, and it sounds like a perfect story, but like, we don't get where we are without our failures.

And I had plenty of them, you know, before I started working on the hill, I was trying really hard to go back home and, and work there. Nothing. I could not find a job to save my life. Um, and then when, um, Senator ha. Well, I turned down a job and then Senator Hagan lost. Um, not only did I turn down a job, I, um, got into Duke's, uh, public policy program.

I put in my two weeks notice, I sent my deposit and then, um, decided not to go. And that was after I had been rejected from Georgetown a couple years before that. And then she lost. But the reason I didn't go to Duke is because I started to think, you know, if I could get in. , maybe I could get into Harvard

Um, and so after she lost, I was able to put the time into the Harvard application and then I did get in. Um, but to the job that I have now, I was trying very hard to make, um, a job happen back in North Carolina. And I wanted to go work for a candidate. And he said yes, and then said, I want you to talk to my new campaign manager.

I don't know what the disconnect was there, but it didn't happen. And he said they wanted to. , you know, kind of do something else with the position that I wasn't interested in doing what they wanted to do with the position. And so, um, I don't know if you know Yasmin Raji, she was a year ahead of um, She graduated in 2017 from the Kennedy School.

So, um, she one day just said, what do you wanna do after school? Uh, and I had been thinking on it since that other job didn't work out. And I said, I either wanna work at a media company or an organization that has a lot of, um, name recognition, who can leverage their influence to increase civic engagement.

and then she sent me this job, , and it's been, yeah, . And it's just been like truly amazing. And you know, the Full Circle moment is a woman who worked at the White House during my internship. Um, I had become friends with her and I reached out to her and said, Hey, I'm, because she, I know she's, uh, she's married to one of our hosts.

Um, and I said, Hey, I'm gonna apply for, , um, what are your thoughts? Do you think it's a good fit? And she was like, oh my gosh, yes, I'm gonna send your stuff in. And yeah, that's how I, how I got here. And so, yeah, I, um, I didn't tell all the failures, but just they teach you things and they lead

Jennifer: of failures. . Yeah. It's not, nobody jumps out of the womb. Perfect.

Shaniqua: no.

Jennifer: being open and having the perspective of this is here to teach me something and how can I get better or position myself differently is so, so important. Thank you for sharing that. And so glad that you landed at Crooked Media VP of Politics.

I personally think they're super lucky to have you. What does VP of Politics entail?

Shaniqua: what does it entail? Um, so I got promoted in uh, August, so I am still, uh, feeling my way around. Thank you, . Um, and we have, um, a new C e O who started in October. So it's been kind of, because those were both so, happened, so close to each other, um, I kind of like. joined senior leadership, but then someone came in to say, okay, this is the, the vision for the company.

Um, and so the best way to, uh, distill down what I, I do, I think falls in two buckets. The first, our content brings an audience in and we tell them about all the things that are going on in, in politics. Um, and some of that stuff is beyond, um, you know, your kind of standard politics that we have. I should know this , we have about 25 shows, I think.

Jennifer: you have a lot of shows. We went and saw Lovett with Bit O O'Rourke in Austin, by the

Shaniqua: oh, that is awesome. Yes. Love it. I, I I was about to say. I love, love it. That's,

Jennifer: It's a great name,

Shaniqua: yeah. . Um, but, um, . Uh, yeah. So part of it is like shows like love it or leave it in Pod Save America. They bring the audience in, talk about what's happening, and then those folks typically want to do something about the things they hear about.

And so then they're kind of passed over to my team where we make sure that they're not just listening to the things that they care about and consuming that content, but actually given the tools to take action and try to improve, um, what's going on. And so, , um, our most successful program was in 2020. It was called Adopt A State, and what we knew is that our audience. in pretty blue places, and we wanted to help, uh, some Democrats get elected. And so we had to figure out a way to get their energy and talents into states that they didn't live in, hence, adopt a state where they could pick a state that they wanted to be involved in. And we had 300,000 people sign up for the program and we ended up raising 48 million that year.

And so it just, it was a proof point to me that, um, . When people are committed to making change, they might not know the specific things they need to do, but if you just give them a bit of direction, they, they will, they will surprise you and they will do what needs to be done. And I will say after 2020, I got a little nervous because I thought a lot of people have feelings about Trump Covid, people were at home, you know?

Now will everyone just kind of stop paying attention? And 2022 is really a test. is our theory of change. One that makes sense. Does it work? And, um, you know, for, I mean, crooked Media is a progressive media company. We focus on, um, advancing progressive candidates in causes. And what was supposed to be an awful election for Democrats in 2022 ended up not being, and it was, you know, our program was not as big as it was in 2020, but. it was a reminder that if we, again, give our audience the tools that they need to be successful, that they will show up and, and help do the things that we ask them to do.

Jennifer: Yeah, I feel like many people are really motivated and just want to be shown, okay, how can I put this into action? So on that note, what are some of the things that folks can do to promote progressive politics, for instance, on the ground?

Shaniqua: Yeah. Um, I can't not say something about Vote Save America's my little

Jennifer: Yeah,

Shaniqua: Um, so I will, I will put in some non vote Save America stuff, but first I would encourage folks to go to Vote Save america.com and um, I know everyone's asking for your email address. We do not spam anyone, but we, um, , you know, you can kind of opt into what you wanna do, but we send emails out about, um, kind of the baseline as just voter education information.

Uh, our website will have information. We're updating it now for, uh, this year because there are elections this year, not just, uh, in even years. Um, but information on how to vote in your state. Um, something that we found when we got started was people there, you know, you can't just help put a vote. It's not always logistically.

it's not always logistically that simple. Um, people need some direction, they need to know when their voter registration deadline is. Um, and so we have all of that on the site, but also if you kind of wanna level up and get involved, you can, um, you know, go to our, the take action section of our website and find ways to, uh, engage there.

Also, we have a Vote Save America community, which are some of our most engaged volunteers. They, you know, I, I think they make the world go round. Um, and that is a place where in addition to volunteering, they have a lot of social events and are just building real community amongst each other. There are people from, you know, all over the country and they are in the Slack channel, um, you know, encouraging each other.

I, I lurk in there a lot. I guess they can't tell that I'm lurking in there, but the stories that they share with each other are beautiful. So those are some of the ways through us, but for anyone who just wants to get involved, something that I really encourage people to do is find local organizations where you live.

A lot of Vote Save America's work. We, uh, funnel money and volunteers and then we, um, Provide like, access to our platform so more people can learn about these organizations. But we really invest in grassroots organizations. We believe the people closest, uh, to the ground, closest to the problems have the best insight and, and solutions.

But often those are people who get the least amount of resources to actually fix them. And so, you know, whatever issue you care about, if it's voting, um, if it's abortion, um, you know, if it's climate, whatever it is. Find a local organization that you can join if you don't have a ton of time, but you have money to donate.

Organizations always need money. If you don't have money and you have a lot of time, show up to those volunteer events. Um, you can also go to your local elected leaders, whatever meetings, you know, community meetings they're having, any board meetings that are open to the public. Make your voice heard on the things you care about.

One thing that I always told people working, um, on Capitol Hill when I answered the phones. not everyone's calling our, and you know, your elected officials are hearing from the public, but they're hearing from a very small group normally who have like, um, a minority viewpoint on something. But that's who's really driving the interest of, um, what the elected official thinks the larger community believes in.

So make your voice heard as well.

Jennifer: Yeah. It's usually the vocal minority that tends to have maybe more extreme opinions

How about the vision of Crooked Media? What is that? You mentioned a new ceo.

Shaniqua: Yeah. Um, it's interesting, we just had, um, uh, all staff retreat. They had one before I got there in 2018. So for me, it was the first one we ever had. And definitely before I got there, I think there were like 15 employees. So now we're getting closer to a hundred. So definitely it's, yeah, it's grown tremendously.

Um, but, um, I'm gonna, not to be dorky, I'm gonna read you the, um, the

Jennifer: I love dorky

Shaniqua: I'm gonna read you the mission and you know, it was presented at the retreat and made clear that like the mission has not, um, changed in any way. Um, but it is at Crooked Media, our goal is to build a, a more equitable, inclusive, and just society.

Through progressive conversation, storytelling and activism form entertain and inspire audiences to focus not only on what's broken, but what we can do to. . And so, you know, that is literally what we do. We try to educate people on things that are going on, um, on all of our shows. Um, and you know, I think a perfect example, if I could make a plug, is our show called This Land, um, which has two seasons.

Um, um, a journalist, Cherokee journalist, um, the, the first, um, The first season is about a Supreme Court case. It's really interesting. It's about a murder that happens in Oklahoma and, um, there's, I don't think there's any, you know, Confusion about whether or not the murder took place and who did it. But the case centers around whether or not the state of Oklahoma actually had jurisdiction over that murder because it happened on tribal lands.

And then it opens up this larger, um, question of who actually owns the land in Oklahoma. Um, I mean, if you follow. the news, you know, how the case ends. But, um, uh, if, if the Cherokee Nation wins, then they actually own most of the state of Oklahoma, or like half of the state, not just the smaller reservation that they have and the season ends, um, on a cliffhanger because the courts decide to punt it to the next term, um, when, when the season ended.

So it's really good. Um, but yeah. Something I knew nothing about and it was really interesting. And so that's what our podcast tried to do. Um, just educate people on, on things that are going on.

Jennifer: Yeah. Also, as you were sharing the mission, that really resonated with me. Another aspect of creating a more progressive society, one where you can take action toward things that are broken, not just talk about them. What are thoughts on. because for me it also ties back to something you brought up.

Maybe Jake was Republican, and what are thoughts on how do we more effectively or just more openly communicate with folks from different political affiliations from us? Because at the end of the day, we're all human. We're probably influenced by whatever beliefs we were up around. And to me getting to know one another and share with one another.

Will hopefully limit or minimize a lot of the polarization that's out there, cuz at the end of the day, we're all Americans and we're all human beings, and we all want food and shelter and safety and love and community.

Shaniqua: Yeah. No, I, I think at the core of that is us spending more time together, getting to know each other better. I was actually at lunch with a friend yesterday and he told me during Covid he had been just, you know, doing research on happiness and loneliness, um, and that. , and this has been talked about before.

I even think that, um, professor Segwin brought this up in class in, uh, he would talk about bowling alone a lot. And, um, the book, um, and. people are just spending less time together. And, you know, our communities remain, unfortunately, pretty segregated. And so when people don't get exposed to other kinds of people, um, be it through work, through school, just living in their communities, it's really hard to understand someone else's plight.

Um, and I know that it's easier said than done to seek out these people. Um, you know, there was a time where I thought the internet and social media. Have the opposite effect that it's having now where we've become more polarized. I thought it would show people more kinds of people, and they would be open to, to understanding, um, the differences that exist.

So I, I think that that is like step one to spend some time in areas, communities that you just may not otherwise. Um, Understand something I did at the Kennedy School after Donald Trump won, I started going to conservative events. Um, I'm pretty, you know, steadfast in the things that I believe, but I did wanna understand how do other people arrive at the things that they believe and.

When I started working in politics, I very much believed that everyone wanted to improve the country we lived in, the world we live in. They just thought about it in different ways and they had different ways of getting to that, um, more, more perfect, um, world, but, Something has happened recently where I think some of our leaders have just been bad actors.

They have not been interested in actually improving things, but just kind of amassing power and creating havoc. And we, so we also need to get rid of those folks, and that has become even harder because a lot of systems have been changed. Um, a lot of systems have existed. How, how, how they've continued to exist but been exploited more where it's hard to get rid of these leaders.

just refuse to do the right thing. And that's not just in politics. You know, you have some business leaders, whether or not like you agree with capitalism or you hate it. There are some good business leaders and there are some who are not, who just refuse to treat their employees well. And so sometimes not to, I'll, I'll end this on a high note.

I, I promise, but sometimes it does feel like, you know, so much of the power has been taken away from the people, if you will, that, that it's hard to do. But, so in addition to getting to know other kinds of people, I personally do think getting more active, um, in your community really will make a difference.

One, it will allow you to meet more people, whether or not they're the same as you. But I have long had the belief that. The more people power we have, we can kind of, um, you know, hold our own against the, the bigger, more powerful interest. If, if collectively we stopped buying something from the company of A C E O who's just really bad, we can make them feel what we want them to do and they will do it.

Um, you know, it's the way I think about voting. Like we're able to use our votes and the more people who vote, the more power we have to overcome the money that has influenced politics so bad. So I would say those are my two things. Spend some more time with people that are different from you that you don't know, um, and get involved in your community.

And one example I will just throw out there, Heather McGee talks about this a lot, about how she connected with like this white supremacist. Heather McGee is a black woman who's like very vocal about race in, in this country. And she talks about the time she spent just having all these conversations with this white supremacist and, you know, , it's amazing to hear her talk about it because they were able to see each other and while she didn't agree with how he came to his beliefs, she understood how he came to them.

And I think even that understanding, while it's not gonna make a black woman wanna be best friends with the white supremacist, I think it will help us think about how we solve some of these problems in a way that's not just, well, I don't like you, and that's it, because

Jennifer: in a way that's not charged, but more productive because we're working with other

Shaniqua: Yeah. Focused on progress.

Jennifer: about right. Focus on progress.

We'll link it in the show notes. All right, squa, and let's turn this now back to you. So we talked a little bit at the beginning of Squa growing up, how she got involved in politics and you're having such a meaningful impact today. What is important to you these days?

Shaniqua: Yeah. Um, kind of tied to what we just talked about. and again, I, the example I used for Heather McGee is an extreme one, but I think it really speaks to how, you know, open people can be um, so something that's really important to me. is progress. I know that sounds very , you know, kind of straightforward. Um, but they're, as we've become more polarized, um, I think people have really dug into like whatever side of whatever issue they believe in or on whatever side of the ideological spectrum they're on and. that is something, even just thinking about Democrats alone, there are, there's a spectrum and, and people on either sides of, um, an issue. And I think that unfortunately in an effort to, you know, really kind of demonstrate their values, a lot of people have become really rigid in what they're willing to kind of compromise on pers other perspectives they're willing to consider and.

It feels like a race to be right, instead of actually making progress. Um, I can list out all of my values, the things I believe, um, and I will say my values are kind of the anchor in all of this. Um, but I can list out everything that I believe. But if, if believing those things with no progress, um, is the.

and the other choice is compromising on a few of those things so that we can see some change. I do think it's important to see some change progress. It doesn't just come overnight. It takes a lot of effort and you have to keep pushing and pushing, and I much rather push for the small thing that leads to the bigger thing than just remain in one spot until the big thing comes.

it may never come. And so we need to get as much as we can. And, um, I think the 2020 election is a perfect example. Um, you know, I will say this, I did not vote for Joe Biden in the primary, but when he was the nominee, that is the person that I worked to help get elected. And a lot of people would often ask.

Well, I or say, you know, I don't like him. I, I don't want to elect him. Um, I don't want incremental change. I want big change. And well, I will say part of that is a failure of our education system to a accurately describe how, um, our, our government works. The other part, um, is it's a pretty privileged position to say, I'm gonna.

I'm gonna stay right here until I get everything that I want. When there are people whose livelihood, who you know, whether or not they eat the next day, whether or not they will wake up in the morning depends on that small bit of progress that we are able to get from someone like a Joe Biden, who I actually think has surprised a lot of progressives and done more than than expected.

but that's valuable to me. Um, and so progress is something that's important to me now, and I, I hope that more people will get focused on, um, that instead of, instead of being right.

Jennifer: So true. How about Chanika? How are you taking care of yourself these days?

Shaniqua: I know, how do I do a little for me? Well, today I have therapy. I have that twice a week, not twice a week, twice a month.

Jennifer: Every, every other week

Shaniqua: Um, yeah, . Um, but something that I like, just demand of myself is to, um, to, to get exercise in or, or walks, uh, which walks are exercise. But like this morning, yesterday was kind of rough and so this morning, um, I went for a four mile run and the weather was perfect.

Uh, well actually it rained, but it was perfect. Like I just needed to get a lot of anxiety out. Um, and it was, the rain

Jennifer: Move your body.

Shaniqua: Yeah. Yeah. And so it was beautiful and you know, sometimes I'll just go for a walk so that my mind. as someone who's like, okay, you gotta get all this stuff done. I don't, in the past, I hadn't left time to just let my mind be at ease and let thoughts just kind of roam around because I felt like that was not a good use of time.

But, um, , you know, and the p honestly, when Covid started and I wanted to get outta the house, I would go on walks. And I started to see that clearing my mind. Like some of my best ideas would come to me during those walks. And so those are some of the ways that I take care of myself other than like wearing sweatshirts and, and sitting in this chair.

Jennifer: And sitting in your bold chair, bringing it back full circle. This was so, so, so much of a treat for me. I adored

Shaniqua: thank you for having. This was, this was great, and it felt like it felt like a little therapy, so I appreciate the invite.

Jennifer: Yay. That's great. All right, we'll wrap it there.

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